View Full Version : Stock removal.
Dave Barker
06-10-03, 01:58 PM
Ok.
I need an idiots guide.( cos im n idiot and I'm saying that before someone else does mushy)
IF I were to consider producing a blade or two of my own, and use the stock removal method, what would I need equipment wise to do it.
The second question is this, what are the pros and cons of stock removal agains laminating ( scandi style)
I've seen some pictorials with regard to stockremoval and it all looks quite straight forward ( apart fromthe welding bit..)
Anyone take the challenge to explain............
keith_beef
06-10-03, 02:12 PM
Ok.
I need an idiots guide.( cos im n idiot and I'm saying that before someone else does mushy)
IF I were to consider producing a blade or two of my own, and use the stock removal method, what would I need equipment wise to do it.
The second question is this, what are the pros and cons of stock removal agains laminating ( scandi style)
I've seen some pictorials with regard to stockremoval and it all looks quite straight forward ( apart fromthe welding bit..)
Anyone take the challenge to explain............
I can't remember where I read this, but the difference between forging and stock removal is:
forging is Bang, make flat
stock removal is Grind, make sparks...
Well, as I have mentioned before, I know a Finn who makes puukko blades with just hand files and a saw. You mention welding, maybe by this you mean welding a piece of round bar (maybe threaded bar) onto a stub tang. This is quick, and gets you a soft mild steel tang on a hard steel blade. But you don't need to wel, hard silver soldering (or brazing) is good enough, according to Hrisoulas.
I once made a very small, tanto shaped blade for my wife using a mounted stone in the chuck of a hand-held drill, from an old piece of EN42. Small enough to harden in the gas cooker flame.
.
MushiSushi
06-10-03, 02:19 PM
Ok.
I need an idiots guide.( cos im n idiot and I'm saying that before someone else does mushy)
:yikes: :yikes: I NEVER!!! :twak: ;)
IF I were to consider producing a blade or two of my own, and use the stock removal method, what would I need equipment wise to do it.
The second question is this, what are the pros and cons of stock removal agains laminating ( scandi style)
I've seen some pictorials with regard to stockremoval and it all looks quite straight forward ( apart fromthe welding bit..)
Anyone take the challenge to explain............
for stock removal on scandistyle blades I reckon you could get away with a powerfile and a hacksaw and a vice, some files and then on to silicon carbide paper, considering the space you have to work. you probably don't have much space for anything else. Then you got HT, but you could farm that out.
For the laminating question, from what I have read, I am not sure how much of a gimmick that is considering the quality of modern steels, the qualities of the blade are really going to be down to the HT and getting it right for the steel you use.
of course if you want to try the HT yourself, here's a scandistyle maker with a rather dubious looking set up, hope he's not one of the scandinavians we have on here :yikes: :twak: or I might be in twouble for posting his site
http://valkyriacut.topcities.com/pictures.html
it just shows what you can get away with when you only have basic stuff
Dave Barker
06-10-03, 02:28 PM
You are right... YOU ARE IN TWUBBLE cos he aint here!!
a hacksaw to cut the shape right! files to round off burrs and the like and paper to finish. From what grade to what grade. I know a certain noggin who would probably do the HT for me. won't you trond??
sharpening etc by the same person. What about the tang though, need to be welded/brazed? or can that be cut too?
Told you I was an idiot!
PS_Bond
06-10-03, 02:37 PM
I *think* the welding being referred to is the steel lamination. Of course, if you're forge-welding, then you might as well continue and forge the blade the rest of the way.
Easiest way to try would be to get hold of some annealed O1 and a few files...
Added -
Papers - from 80 grit to, say, 1200 grit; stop at around 400ish before HT as you'll need to clean scale off after that.
Tang - continuation of the blade, cut to shape (avoid any internal right angles, they act as stress risers which can cause cracks to start & propogate).
Files - coarse to fine. (Technical - bastard cut, second cut, smooth cut). Get all of the scratches out from the previous grade (file or paper) before moving onto the next; always use paper with a hard backing behind it.
Nike!
MushiSushi
06-10-03, 02:40 PM
you can cut the tang as one piece with the blade.
yep, that's what you do with the hacksaw, if you can get them, try cobalt blades in your hacksaw. :biggthump
powerfile for the initial bevel grind and files and paper to finish .. anything from 120 grit to 1200 grit ... what ever takes your fancy ;)
Idiocy and lack of knowledge are not synonymous, if'n'you don't know, search or ask, 'swhat i do :p :wink:
Dave Barker
06-10-03, 02:42 PM
Ok thanks so far....
Next question.... the bevel, how do I do that bit.
Dave Barker
06-10-03, 02:44 PM
Oh and what is a power file??? Never heard of it ( I live in the frozen mid west of the country where they make their own hooch from spuds and peas)
MushiSushi
06-10-03, 02:51 PM
DIS IS WHATCHEWWANT (http://www.axminster.co.uk/default.asp?part=BD292E) grinding when in confined spaces.
Put the tang of the blade in the vice, edge facing forward, turn on power file :p and place on blade at approximate angle you want bevel, and move up and down to get an even bevel. it's a little more ergonomic in confined spaces than a bench grinder, ask Colin, I think i converted him :biggthump although I can't do anything about his drunken behaviour or penchant for dressing in tights and chatting in the chatroom while naked. :yikes: :nono: :banned:
I agree with Mushi.. the cobalt steel blades he recommended are a godsend.. i'm even going to buy one of those powerfiles once i can get over how easy it is to cut O1 :biggthump
ugug
PS_Bond
06-10-03, 04:44 PM
I cut mine with a chisel these days :D
Hello everybody,
I 've just registerd here cause I heard that you were talking about my knives and my working methods. Those working methods work for me and I can assure you that my knives and Puukkos work too.
I'm not here to make a fortune with my knifetinkering, I make them because I like it and I need a brake from work. And for the tools and methods... It's all I have and it has to be enough. I would love to have lots of power tools and belt sanders and such but since I dont, I have to cope with the tools I got...
I'm open to all new and old ideas for knife/Puukko making and hope to hear from all of you soon.
Juha
http://valkyriacut.topcities.com/
MushiSushi
07-10-03, 03:53 PM
I knew I would get in twouble ;) ...... Hi Juha and welcome, I post on rec.knives as Simon quite a bit and like to have the occasional wordy sparring match with Chas, just for sport you know ;). I remembered your post when you posted your link (and saved the link for reference) and I was impressed with what you had achieved with the bare basics. It wasn't meant as a criticism, more a compliment in the achievements in knife making, over facilities, and we're just trying to egg Dave on and get him to make his own blades ;) I thought you example cancelled out his excuse that he didn't have the facilities
keith_beef
07-10-03, 03:57 PM
Hello everybody,
I 've just registerd here cause I heard that you were talking about my knives and my working methods. Those working methods work for me and I can assure you that my knives and Puukkos work too.
I'm not here to make a fortune with my knifetinkering, I make them because I like it and I need a brake from work. And for the tools and methods... It's all I have and it has to be enough. I would love to have lots of power tools and belt sanders and such but since I dont, I have to cope with the tools I got...
I'm open to all new and old ideas for knife/Puukko making and hope to hear from all of you soon.
Juha
http://valkyriacut.topcities.com/
Hyvää paivää Juha!
Nice to see you here, after all this time.
Keith.
keith_beef
07-10-03, 03:59 PM
I knew I would get in twouble ;) ...... Hi Juha and welcome, I post on rec.knives as Simon quite a bit and like to have the occasional wordy sparring match with Chas, just for sport you know ;). I remembered your post when you posted your link (and saved the link for reference) and I was impressed with what you had achieved with the bare basics. It wasn't meant as a criticism, more a compliment in the achievements in knife making, over facilities, and we're just trying to egg Dave on and get him to make his own blades ;) I thought you example cancelled out his excuse that he didn't have the facilities
Hee hee hee!
Why, when you have such a distinguished name, would you want to pick the nickname "Simon" when you post to rec.knives?
Keith.
MushiSushi
07-10-03, 04:10 PM
because my name's Simon?? :smashfrea :buttkick: ;););)
keith_beef
07-10-03, 04:30 PM
because my name's Simon?? :smashfrea :buttkick: ;););)
Simon?
MADE UP NAME!
MushiSushi has got to be your real name.
Keith.
MushiSushi
07-10-03, 04:38 PM
:p ;)
:D :D You guys crack me up. :D :D
Well since you guys don't really know me, only Keith had the questionable honour to meet me (and got me drunk), I can take all kinds of critisism since I think it will make me better knifemaker. I like more to keep to my self sometimes and I dont post really often. If I can share my know how with you, If I can help someone with knife/Puukko problems, I'm here for you.
Colin KC
07-10-03, 05:37 PM
:D :D You guys crack me up. :D :D
Well since you guys don't really know me, only Keith had the questionable honour to meet me (and got me drunk), I can take all kinds of critisism since I think it will make me better knifemaker. I like more to keep to my self sometimes and I dont post really often. If I can share my know how with you, If I can help someone with knife/Puukko problems, I'm here for you.
Welcome Sajuma,
I think the best way for you to help with Puukko problems is to post more & get a digital camera & show us yours :biggthump
MushiSushi
07-10-03, 05:40 PM
did you miss the link that I posted to his site Colin? ... JD again?
keith_beef
07-10-03, 08:01 PM
:D :D You guys crack me up. :D :D
Well since you guys don't really know me, only Keith had the questionable honour to meet me (and got me drunk), I can take all kinds of critisism since I think it will make me better knifemaker. I like more to keep to my self sometimes and I dont post really often. If I can share my know how with you, If I can help someone with knife/Puukko problems, I'm here for you.
I got you drunk? COme off it, Juha! We only had a swift half.
Well, alright, a swift pint.
Then another one.
Then another one. Or maybe two. Well, I wasn't counting.
And we were able to hold reasonable conversations with the Russian selling Bulat (Russian Damascus) and mammoth ivory after that, and with Wolf Borger and his mate, so we can't have been drunk. Just a little happy, maybe.
What did you reckon to Wolf's machine?
For those who weren't there, it's a small belt grinder, with a 3 phase motor and an electronic controller to convert from single phase 220 - 250V. Reversible, and variable speed. 900 Euros complete.
And does sajuma mean something, Juha?
.
Colin KC
07-10-03, 08:04 PM
did you miss the link that I posted to his site Colin? ... JD again?
Yup another half bottle tonight :D
While the cat's away... ;)
keith_beef
07-10-03, 08:11 PM
Yup another half bottle tonight :D
While the cat's away... ;)
it's sauce for the gander
Colin KC
07-10-03, 08:57 PM
Absoblimminlutely:D
keith_beef
07-10-03, 10:32 PM
Absoblimminlutely:D
Have a sip of JD for me, then, while I have a sip of Aberlour for you.
Us ganders have got to stick together.
Welcome Sajuma,
I think the best way for you to help with Puukko problems is to post more & get a digital camera & show us yours :biggthump
Yes... :( the only problem is that I might be handyman in my shop but with computers... :banghead: I have to take time to learn and post some stuff here. I have been deaming to make a tutorial in my website, how I make knives.
Well... we have to have dreams... :thinking:
I got you drunk? COme off it, Juha! We only had a swift half.
Well, alright, a swift pint.
Then another one.
Then another one. Or maybe two. Well, I wasn't counting.
And we were able to hold reasonable conversations with the Russian selling Bulat (Russian Damascus) and mammoth ivory after that, and with Wolf Borger and his mate, so we can't have been drunk. Just a little happy, maybe.
What did you reckon to Wolf's machine?
For those who weren't there, it's a small belt grinder, with a 3 phase motor and an electronic controller to convert from single phase 220 - 250V. Reversible, and variable speed. 900 Euros complete.
And does sajuma mean something, Juha?
.
We were able to hold some conversation with the russians and germans. I just havent studied either language in my life...And can you be really honest and say that our conversation was reasonable? :rolleyes:
I liked the Wolfies machine and I was suprised that is was so silent. It was too expensive of course but nice toy anyway.
And yes, Sajuma does mean something. :p
Juha
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