Just had a thought

[Raoul Duke]

Just had a thought regarding the issues around kershaw Leeks and the fact they are no good for legal EDC's as they lock the bade open. They also lock closed! If the lock makes the folding knife a fixed blade, surely using the same argument the lock that keeps them closed makes them a fixed closed blade.
If someone bases their argument on the fact that the liner lock makes the blade unable to fold then the lock that keeps it closed by the same argument makes the knife unable to open.
Just a thought and it may be a lame argument but it is only as lame as it is to say that the Leek or any other folder with a lock is a fixed blade!
Also you may argue that the Leek is an auto. Well why can you buy them in the UK ( that would be my argument if ever faced with a man in a wig) surely i should be protected from these knife dealing phyco's and if you say they are illegal what steps have been taken to ensure i am not buying something that shouldent even be here. They are at the moment sold saying Legal in the UK and i just imported 2 Leeks, 4 chives, a blackie Collins Invisible "letter opener" ,two Urban pals :doh: (forget the pals) so surley if customs didn't stop them they must be legal.

[keith_beef]

Just had a thought regarding the issues around kershaw Leeks and the fact they are no good for legal EDC's as they lock the bade open. They also lock closed! If the lock makes the folding knife a fixed blade, surely using the same argument the lock that keeps them closed makes them a fixed closed blade.
If someone bases their argument on the fact that the liner lock makes the blade unable to fold then the lock that keeps it closed by the same argument makes the knife unable to open.
Just a thought and it may be a lame argument but it is only as lame as it is to say that the Leek or any other folder with a lock is a fixed blade!
Also you may argue that the Leek is an auto. Well why can you buy them in the UK ( that would be my argument if ever faced with a man in a wig) surely i should be protected from these knife dealing phyco's and if you say they are illegal what steps have been taken to ensure i am not buying something that shouldent even be here. They are at the moment sold saying Legal in the UK and i just imported 2 Leeks, 4 chives, a blackie Collins Invisible "letter opener" ,two Urban pals :doh: (forget the pals) so surley if customs didn't stop them they must be legal.


Hmm... I don't think that would be accepted as defence. Maybe, at a push, as mitigating circumstances, but all that will do is reduce your sentence by a little bit.

I'm sure Danzo and some others will point out my errors if I seem to be talking out of my behind, but *off the top of my head* here are my opinions.

Just because Customs and Excise didn't spot something coming into the country as being illegal, doesn't mean that it can be freely traded or carried. (Your Leeks, Chives, Shallots and other Oniony Things.)

Just because you manage to buy something in a high street shop doesn't automatically absolve you, either. I would compare this with kitchen knives. You can go into any kitchenware shop and buy yourself a sharp(ish) pointy thing with a blade well over five inches long, quite legally. Carry it home wrapped up in its bag, and I don't think you'll have any problems. But, carry it around "pirate style" (between you teeth), pushed through your belt, or slipped into the top of your boot, and you're just asking for trouble. You'll be done for carrying a weapon, and no amount of "but I bought it openly and perfectly legally in the high street" will get you a very stern look from the wiggy ones.

The particular circumstances *at the moment of being collared* count for much more than the way in which the item was acquired.


.

[ugug]

Hey

i can say that imo the Urban Pals are way illegal and as someone else said, if asked you found them down the back of a sofa.. :p

Res ipsa loquitor

ugug

[MushiSushi]

But you'd be up the plop plop's river without an oar if you used it as your EDC :yikes:

[Danzo]

Hi Raoul

The main thrust of the judgement in Harris v DPP is that a lock turns the legal folder into the illegal fixed blade. That isn't affected by an ability to lock closed.
However unless specifically banned by the 1959 legislation you can buy, sell, import etc as many lock knives as you want. You just need a legally good reason to carry one with a sub 3" blade.

Sorry!

Danzo

[Raoul Duke]

So let me get this straight Dan( once and for all). This locking rule :zx11pisse :censored: :mad: :cussing: :banghead: :Pissed:
Is just from one case. Harris Vs DPP. This is only a president for future cases. It is not in any other legeslation be it 1959 or any other Acts. Where is this publisised or how is the public supposed to know. especialy when there are british knife traders recomending this to me as a legal EDC.
How can the Police have a problem with it if this is not Current Legislation????
I may be tempted to take your view in the opinel thread and stick with this as my EDC untill i can stump up the 500 Euros to get a custom Slipjoint or other clever non locking lock knife.

[Danzo]

Hi Raoul

I know it is frustrating! English law is made up of law made by Parliament (legislation) and judge made law or 'precedent'. Both are equally legally binding, although the precedent may be overturned by a higher court. Harris is not a case from the superior courts and hence could be argued against and overturned in any case which might arise. Unfotunately, as Mushi and many others have pointed out before, it is rare for freedoms to be returned to the people by the establishment once they have succeeded in removing them.
Over the last twenty years they has been a wholesale abolition of a mass of freedoms which would have been thought to be sacred, most specifically the right to silence and the idea of 'innocent til proven guilty' both of which have effectively been removed. Soon we will have ID cards and the transition to A European style state will be complete. Once we gave power to our government to limit our freedoms if necessary; now an EU government will tell us what we are free to do and everything else will be illegal.
In France they would shrug, smile and ignore the law, here we will no doubt enforce things to the letter.

:banghead:

Danzo

[Danzo]

Er.....rant over.

:rolleyes:

Danzo

[MushiSushi]

I call upon our leader, the revolutionary Martyn, to lead us in to battle against the oppressors

are you with me brothers?

do I hear a "YEAH!"?


ummmmm a murmur then?

did someone just :fart: .. can I take that as a maybe?

oh ...... you'll think about it and get back to me ..... ok then :soapbox: :theyareon :sadwavey: :tapedshut

[Danzo]

:lmao: :rolmao:

:You_Rock_

:biggthump

Danzo

[Raoul Duke]

So while I am still looking to get an EDC manufactured I was wondering what else I could carry in the mean time.
I Know technically I can carry anything if I have a good reason, but lets just say for arguments sake my reason is no good. Or the officer in question doesn’t believe me.
(It’s only fair to point out although I have a very good and responsible job, big house In The Country, Beautiful girlfriend and seven month old son, I can be found from time to time Skate boarding around, pulling off tricks, wearing hooded tops etc., ( all of which crimes i'm sure you agree) and generally get mistaken buy some people with nothing better to do, (as some of you so eloquently put it) as a young "SCROTE" ) ( the Black BMW doesn't help matters much either) So unfortunatly sometimes i get pulled more than your average Joe public.

I want to carry some thing that is 3" with no lock, no criminal record, Custodial Sentence, or fine. With no reason or excuse other than "I am carrying this because i can" :moon:

I think I am still within the boundaries of the law. ( please let me know if i'm not)

I Guess you could say a Swiss Army knife is ok or any other Sub 3" non-locking folder.
A decent Friction Folder may do the trick if you could find one (I like the look of this)

http://www.knifeart.com/scalfricfol.html

The above knife got me thinking; What about a cut throat razor? Surely this cannot be the most Politically correct EDC. I mean it has no point to speak of, it doesn't lock. They can be sub 3". But why would you want to carry one I hear some people asking.
Because that is about all I can Fu:censored:ng carry!!!!!!!!! :rant:

So to conclude, I can, as far is I see it, carry something that is best remembered by some, from reservoir dogs, but a 3" locking folder "the man is a Psycho" :banghead:

[ZDP-189]

So let me get this straight Dan( once and for all). This locking rule Is just from one case. Harris Vs DPP. This is only a president for future cases. It is not in any other legeslation be it 1959 or any other Acts. Where is this publisised or how is the public supposed to know. especialy when there are british knife traders recomending this to me as a legal EDC.
How can the Police have a problem with it if this is not Current Legislation????
I may be tempted to take your view in the opinel thread and stick with this as my EDC untill i can stump up the 500 Euros to get a custom Slipjoint

The police are quick to learn precedents that give them additional powers to arrest people for posing what they believe to be a threat to society or more importantly their own. Quite honestly, if there was a precedent or obscure law against using harsh language (and there is in my jurisdiction) every plod in the land will have heard of it by the change of shift.

As just about anything, from the change in your pocket to the sock on your left foot, is potentially illegal in the wrong context, there is a large subjective element to the application of the law.


A locking SAK (illegal) in your jacket pocket is probably less likely to end in a prosecution than a technically legal (AFAIK) slipjointed 2" kerambit in your boot.
Likewise, a Stanley knife in your possession on the way home from work is more explainable than in a nightclub spat.
Another element is your demeanor (both appearance and manner) - mostly, businessmen on their way home to their country estate aren't stopped and searched, and nor even are skateboarders at the park. But a bloke with a menacing vibe in the wrong place likely will.


In my case, what you may find in my pockets varies with my appearance, situation and I never ever aim to surprise anyone when they see a knife in my hand.

[Martyn]

The above knife got me thinking; What about a cut throat razor? Surely this cannot be the most Politically correct EDC. I mean it has no point to speak of, it doesn't lock. They can be sub 3". But why would you want to carry one I hear some people asking.
Because that is about all I can Fu:censored:ng carry!!!!!!!!! :rant:

So to conclude, I can, as far is I see it, carry something that is best remembered by some, from reservoir dogs, but a 3" locking folder "the man is a Psycho" :banghead:


Yup, that's about the size of it. ;)

It's not so much about what you can or cant, it's about appearance and appropriateness. You can carry some quite ferrocious things, but in order to do so without getting your collar felt, your appearance and demenour must be warm and cuddly to all manner of small children, puppies and old ladies. Before you subject me to a tirade of objections, I agree with you. It's wrong, we should be able to carry these things without being subject to the steroetypical preconceptions of a judgemental society. I'm just simply pointing out the rules of the game, I didn't write them and I certainly dont agree with them. You may feel, and quite rightly, that the game is prejudiced, biassed and unjust - but to that end, you're preaching to the converted.

I'm not suggesting you should swap your black BMW for a brown Volvo, but if you decided to, you'd probably get pulled over less. Personally, I'd stick with the black BMW and leave my kerambit at home.

[MushiSushi]

Of course, there's another point, how many people have been killed in the UK by black BMWs? and how many people killed by kerambits? I think a black BMW is far more of a lethal weapon, but the government make a lot of money off of black BMWs, along with all the other cars on the road. :rolleyes:;)