Stitching Tips

[Tiffers]

Some stitching pictures......

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4294/stitch44qj.jpg

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5456/stitch56dq.jpg

Thats stitched at 8 to the inch through 4 layers of 4mm bridle leather. I knocked it up in a hurry to show the slant of the thread in a correctly aligned stitch. Most stitching awl blades are diamond shaped and if you align these up with the slanted pricking iron mark then you get stitchings which all align the same and that are even and look nice.



These next ones are versions on a backstitch.

As I have previously said about backstitch, its really one that is used when stitching leather onto fabric. I go into that a bit more HERE (http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showpost.php?p=109041&postcount=8) .

Usually with a backstitch, the look of the front of the stitch is exactly the same as if you had done a double handed or saddle stitch. The reverse is where the difference lays. With double handed stitching you continuously work in the same direction, with backstitch its a bit like "two steps forward, one step back". You can reverse the stitch so that the front becomes the back and the slanted back becomes the decorative front. Thats what I have done in the following pictures.

Just a quick explaination about how a backstitch is constructed. Basically you create a hole, thread the single needle through so that the end of the thread comes up to the hole. Then you put the needle through the hole you create on the other side of the first hole to yourself (assuming you are stitching towards yourself and that the item is held in some clams or similar). You then bring the needle back past the first hole to one to the third hole which has been created on the side of the first hole closest to yourself. This creates a loop on the backside of the leather. Then you take the needle and pass it back through the FIRST hole you made. It comes out of the reverse and has to then either go under or over the loop. This is where the differences can be created for decorative stitching.

http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/9889/stitch30eq.jpg

In the picture above, the needle was taken alternately over then under the loop. This creates a brick effect.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/9751/stitch20bl.jpg

In this second picture, the needle has been taken under the loop which creates a straight slanted stitch.

http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/307/stitch13mf.jpg

In the third picture, the needle has been taken over the loop and you have a slightly curved slanted stitch.

I posted these up to illustrate the slight slanted lay of normal saddle stitching and the differences with backstitch.

Tiffers


I have to thank MBM for taking those pictures! The small scale of them caused me many headaches when I was trying to photograph them!

[singteck]

Hi Tiffers

Thank you for the post. I have been doing some leather works for a while now. Still wet behind the ears :P

Can you show the photo for the back of the saddle stitch? I can produce the slant on the face but my back stitch is not slanted. Is that correct? Or am i doing something wrong? :S

Thank you once again for sharing.

singteck

[Tiffers]

hi Singteck, glad to have you here at BB :)

The reverse of the saddle stitch isnt usually slanted because of a couple of reasons. Firstly, the pricking irons which mark the stitches on the good side of the leather help to create the slant. As you dont mark the stitches on the reverse you dont get this assistance. Also, the awl blade that makes the stitches is less diamond shaped the closer you get to the very point which means you are not getting any assistance from this area either.

When you do a saddle stitch you must remember to wrap the thread over the second needle when it comes out of the reverse of the leather. This helps to create the knot inside each stitch but will also help you to create an even and neat reverse. For some people it also helps to create a slight slant. I have to say this doesnt happen for me as my stitches on the reverse tend to be straight but someone I once worked with stitched exactly the same as I did but his slanted.

Hope this helps!

Tiffers

[singteck]

Thank you

I do not wrap the thread over the second needle. I find that when i do that, my front side slant is no longer there but my back side is slanted! hahahahaha
must be doing something wrong there.

More practice i suppose.

Once again thank you

singteck

[Tiffers]

When you pull the stitch tight, try making sure the thread just passes over the needle once. Also, when you are pulling tight, if you pull your left hand up and your right hand down it should also position the thread in the right place to get the slant.

Tiffers

[singteck]

Right!

Thank you for the fast reply.

singteck

[Tiffers]

My pleasure! let me know how you get on.

Tiffers

[singteck]

Hi Tiffers

I have manage to have slants on both side of my stitching. Thanks to you.

I marked both pieces of leather separately then prick both leather with an opposite slant. No problem after that.

But it takes a lot longer to stitch now.

But it's worth it just for the look.

Thank you for showing the way

singteck

[Tiffers]

As I was stitching away this morning, I was trying to analyse what I was doing to see if there was anything I did which made life easier. I came up with a couple of things....

If you are working by creating a hole then putting the thread through it then making another hole...try to keep the awl in your hand at all times. It really cuts down on the time it takes per stitch if you dont constantly have to put down then pick up your awl. It also increases the chance of the awl being set at the same angle in your hand which will keep the stitches all at the same angle too.

When stitching and you are having a few problems getting the right hand needle to go through the hole, try using the awl handle to push it through then once it starts moving, pull the thread of the first needle back through the hole slightly. If you have waxed your thread enough, it will grab the needle slightly and pull it back through with itself.

Tiffers

[singteck]

I usually punch all the holes first before i start stitching. I think the main problem in using your method would be (to me anyway) the lack of a sewing clam and at ~£50 it's very expensive for me since i am not getting any profit from it.

Maybe one day...........

singteck

[singteck]

oh yes i forgot to mention..... i made a belt pouch last night and a knife shealth just now. No camera to show off the sstuffs unfortunately.

Running low on leather now. Have to make a trip to london soon to resupply.

hehe

singteck

[Medium John]

I usually punch all the holes first before i start stitching. I think the main problem in using your method would be (to me anyway) the lack of a sewing clam and at ~£50 it's very expensive for me since i am not getting any profit from it.

Maybe one day...........

singteck


Singteck mate, there is an alternative to full on sadlers clamps, If you contact http://www.theidentitystore.co.uk/ you can order a "stitching pony" from them (item # 313200) for £16 plus postage, I got one and tryed it. It's comfortable enough and tall enough to slip it under you thighs and work with it between your legs.

Hope that helps.

MJ

[Medium John]

The catalouges worth getting too.

[singteck]

Thank you Medium John

I will contact them tomorrow to find out more.


singteck

[Wild Rose]

Or you can make your own stitch pony (as we know it over here in the "Colonies" ;) ) -
http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/tutorials/sewing-001.jpg

click her for a How to Make a Stitch Pony tutorial (http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/tutorials/_stitchpony.html)

[Medium John]

Thats a beautifull pony Wildrose, I was going to make one for myself, bu after pricing up mateieals and time, figured I'd just buy it =)

[singteck]

Hi Wild Rose

Thank you for the photo. I have been wanting to make one but have not got around to do it.

I will try to make one soon.

singteck

[H.T. Ryerson]

Tiffers, could you show this poor ten thumbed soul how to tie a proper reef knot? (that is the correct knot to use at the end of a row of stitcheson a sheath, right?)

[Wild Rose]

Well I ain't Tiffers, but the traditional (and proper) way is to back stitch 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 stitches (the half means that both end up coming out the back) then clip off. Once done stitching run your overstitch wheel along the seam on both sides to smooth and even the stitching.

Hope this helps......

[singteck]

Hi Wild Rose,

I have looked at the pony and I did make one. But maybe my chair don't agree with the bar across the bottom so I cannot find a nice position for my leg. Could be that I change the design a little. :P


So I made a stitching clamp
http://static.flickr.com/19/115821279_c1c23cf068.jpg?v=0

Don't know if it's any good. The glue have just set when I took the picture, will try it out soon.

singteck

[Tiffers]

That looks nice Singteck :) Have you got bolts or something through the 3 layers on the bottom end? I cant see in the photo.

Tiffers

[singteck]

No metal at all in the making of that. All glued together. Was thinking of stitching some leather on that part to strengthen it, but it looks to be quite strong. Think i will use it tonight as it is and see what happen.

singteck

[Tiffers]

Personally I'd consider putting 2 bolts or somethng else through the bottom end of it. The strain of opening it will eventually crack any glue seal. At least, I know the stresses my clams go through and they have 2 bolts through.... I'm sure they wouldnt be there if they were not needed!! :D

Tiffers

[singteck]

Ya, I fear the same too (more likely the wood in the center splitting) but don't have the hardware with me at the moment. Would have to take a trip to B&Q one day soon.

Thank you.

singteck

[Wild Rose]

Nice looking clam sing...........

For a heavy duty horse you might want to check out the book "The Art of Handsewing Leather" by AL Stohlman - not only is there lots of good ideas on sewing but in the back is the plans for making a full sized horse which attaches to a regular kithcen type chair................

[singteck]

Used is as it is. Still haven't made any modification to it yet except smoothing the edges a little.

Works very well. Made a few more pouches and it's very comfortable to use. Just the right height and holds the leather resonably tight on it's own.

Will probably use it until it's broken, then i can look for some nice wood to make another.

singteck

[tilly]

hi i need help with getting stitching the same size is there a tool for this at the moment i drill them by eye also need to keep them in a straight line.i have just got hold of a nice bit of 3mm v.tan leather that is a nice brown colour and want these sheaths to be top doller thanx tilly

[Tiffers]

Hi Tilly, most people seem to use something called an overstitcher which is a little wheel that creates a mark evenly as you run it along the leather. You could also use a pricking iron or pricking wheel.

If you have a pair of dividers you could also use those. If you use them like a compass to mark a line parallel to the edge of the leather then use them to "walk" up the line marking holes evenly as you go.

Hope this helps!

Tiffers

[singteck]

When I first started leather work, I marked my stitches with a rule and a pen. Not the fastest way but then I couldn't get hold of an overstitch wheel or a pricking iron. If you can, I think the over stitch wheel is the best to start off with.

singteck

[Rogue]

Just picked up an overstitch wheel for about £4.30 ex.VAT so it's not a big investment - and it does make a difference! I'm busy stitching together lots of bits of scrap leather for practice almost as we speak. Or type, as the case may be!

[Wild Rose]

remeber an over stitch wheel is not just for marking stitches but for smoothing/evening the stitching after sewing........and if one pre-punches/drills their sewing holes it can also be used to make a "bed" for the stitches before sewing - a bit more time consuming and not "traditional", but it can help you get a more even stitch......

[commachio]

Being new to knife making and sheath making, has anyone come across a thread in the forum that lists what is needed in terms of tools, what each tool does etc. I was looking for an 'overstitch' tool but, as expected, there is more than one size like 5,6,7.....what does each mean? Is there a 'standard' size that most makers use? What about sizes of needles....etc etc

Think it would make a great thread if someone was interested in doing it

:D

[singteck]

Being new to knife making and sheath making, has anyone come across a thread in the forum that lists what is needed in terms of tools, what each tool does etc. I was looking for an 'overstitch' tool but, as expected, there is more than one size like 5,6,7.....what does each mean? Is there a 'standard' size that most makers use? What about sizes of needles....etc etc

Think it would make a great thread if someone was interested in doing it

:D

It's all over the place actually, hiding in the threads like this reply :D

You need some simple tools like

1 1/2" or 2" saddler's awl with handle
Overstitch wheel 5 or 6 would do. I use 5 more then 6 but it all depends on the sheath.
Needles.... 1,2 or 3.... they all look the same to me.
Thread 18/3 minimun or 18/4 or 18/5 depending on the look you want to achive.
Beewax
Knife to cut the leather
Sandpaper
Dye

and if you want to make the work easier, get ...

a no.1 edge beveler
a divider or groover

singteck

[Tiffers]

I think there are several threads about necessary tools for sheath making. I was asked this at the weekend and we worked it out that the absolute minimum was...

A knife to cut the leather

A pair of dividers, these are used for the following

Use one prong to mark out your pattern on the leather
Use to mark the line for your stitching
Use to mark the distance between each stitch, use your eye to determine what length stitch you want.
Use to help create an even width welt


Some glue, such as

Evostick Timebond (either runny or set)
Wickes DIY Stores Timebond (much cheaper than Evostick, only available runny)
Contact adhesive


Something to make the stitch holes with, this could be

A traditional diamond shaped awl. Mine is about a 2.25" blade in a normal handle.
A pillar drill with a fine(1mm or 1.5mm) drill bit, or similar drill/stand combination
A round awl


Something to stitch with or to hold the sheath together, such as

Needles and thread waxed with beeswax or candlewax (for sheaths I usually use size 3 leatherwork needles with a blunt point and 4/18 linen thread)
Leather thonging (using a thonging needle helps with this process!)


Wet and dry or glass to smooth the edge of the sheath

Something to finish the sheath and to make it look nice, this could be

Gum Tragacanth
Carnuba Wax/cream
Dubbin
Beeswax


So, the list of what you need to create a sheath is actually fairly minimal. All other tools pretty much make life easier or help to give a better overall finished product.

I think that doing a list of every tool and what its used for is a difficult one as people use their imagination and use items which are perhaps not expected in a leatherworking toolbox. Or, you have people with access to tools that not everyone can get their hands on. Also, sometimes different brands of tools have the same name, are used in the same way but have a very different look to one created by a different company.

Tiffers

[Tiffers]

I cant make any recommendations about overstitch wheels I'm afraid as I dont use them.

Tiffers

[commachio]

Many thanks for all your comments - very helpful and very much appreciated. It's a long journey only made shorter by the kind help of you all.

regards

[Tiffers]

Many thanks for all your comments - very helpful and very much appreciated. It's a long journey only made shorter by the kind help of you all.

regards

Give me a yell if you need any more help :) Honestly, I'm not always grouchy ;)

Good luck and dont forget to show us what you come up with :)

Tiffers

[Tiffers]

Following on from post number 34 in this thread, another member asked me to explain in a bit more depth what I was on about with regards to my list of minimal tools for sheath making as he hadnt heard of half the stuff I was talking about. I sometimes take it as read that everyone knows what a pair of dividers are but they dont!

Here is my slightly edited response:

here are some more explainations....


A knife to cut the leather

This one is fairly obvious :D Any reasonably thin bladed knife will do for this. One knife I have had a good response from has been a Bark River Mikro Canadian. Its quite a handy little knife though any craft knife will do as well.



A pair of dividers, these are used for the following

Use one prong to mark out your pattern on the leather
Use to mark the line for your stitching
Use to mark the distance between each stitch, use your eye to determine what length stitch you want.
Use to help create an even width welt



Ok, dividers. These are like a compass but with 2 points instead of a place for a pencil. Check here for an example which may be of use. They are not specific saddlers dividers but do the job.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-9-Adjustable-Dividers-Monument-Brand_W0QQitemZ160133394320QQihZ006QQcategoryZ1387 3QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If you run one point along the edge of the leather, then use the other point to mark a line, you can get parallel lines drawn for the stitching to go along. Then, if you use both points, you can mark each stitch out. Put the first point of the dividers onto your stitching line and push slightly into the leather then bring the next point onto the line and push in. This gives you 2 marks into the leather. Then remove the dividers. Put the first point into the second hole then put the second point, onto the line to create the third mark. Sounds laborious but its not too difficult when you get the hang of it.


Some glue, such as

Evostick Timebond (either runny or set)
Wickes DIY Stores Timebond (much cheaper than Evostick, only available runny)
Contact adhesive



Ok, some people like glue, others dont. I sometimes use it if I have lots of layers but occasionally I dont worry about it. A timebond contact adhesive like the one from Wickes or the Evostick branded one is useful though. Spread a very thin layer on both pieces due to be stuck together. Give them a couple of moments then carefully place the 2 parts together. If you are putting glue on a smooth surface, rough it up a bit with something to get better results.



Something to make the stitch holes with, this could be

A traditional diamond shaped awl. Mine is about a 2.25" blade in a normal handle.
A pillar drill with a fine(1mm or 1.5mm) drill bit, or similar drill/stand combination
A round awl

A diamond shape awl like this one
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-SADDLERS-AWL-2_W0QQitemZ180135051553QQihZ008QQcategoryZ75565QQt cZphotoQQcmdZViewItem is a good bet though you may want to make sure the awl blade is well into the handle (clamp the blade in a vice and just tap on the handle gently) and that the blade is well polished. Do this with some fine wet and dry. You are not aiming for sharp corners on the blade, just polished ones.



Something to stitch with or to hold the sheath together, such as

Needles and thread waxed with beeswax or candlewax (for sheaths I usually use size 3 leatherwork needles with a blunt point and 4/18 linen thread)
Or leather thonging (using a thonging needle helps with this process!)


Saddlers needles, http://www.leprevo.co.uk/sewing.html T26, size 3.
Thread, I prefer to use a thread which is a linen thread, thickness 18/4. Its fairly hard to buy in smaller amounts though its available from http://www.bowstock.co.uk/acatalog/Line.html



Wet and dry or glass to smooth the edge of the sheath

Wet and dry will smooth down the layers of leather so they are all the same. It looks nice :) I usually work through the different grits until its burnished smooth.



Something to finish the sheath and to make it look nice, this could be

Gum Tragacanth
Carnuba Wax/cream
Dubbin
Beeswax


Its all personal preference about how its finished! :)

Hope this helps!

Tiffers

[ArtinNC]

Quick question. I always thought you were to recess or grove for the thread to fit down into. In the first picture it looks like you just pulled the thread down into the leather without a grove will this thread be protected from wear?? I'm asking because I like the looks of the thread without the grove, or maybe I'm groving the leather to deep??

[Skippy Puckins']

Tiffers.

Very impressive! But I'm having a drama finding anywhare that'll sell suitable leather. Do you know of any reputable merchants?

Skippy P:huh:

[Ian Atkinson]

Tiffers isn't here any more!

Try these links for suppliers:

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1247892&postcount=6

I recommend Le Prevo,

Ian.

[Robevs73]

Tiffers.

Very impressive! But I'm having a drama finding anywhare that'll sell suitable leather. Do you know of any reputable merchants?

Skippy P:huh: i get my leather off ebay. the shop is leather solutions. hope this helps.

[AHBH]

How does one stitch two pieces of leather together that meets at a 90 degree angle?