A handmade Katana for £1000?

[roger986]

A colleauge at work was thinking of buying a Japanese handmade katana. Would £1000 buy one? If so, where would he go to purchase it?

Thanks

Roger

[Mr_Yarrow]

Japan?

[roger986]

Japan?
Useful reply:rolleyes:

[Mr_Yarrow]

Sorry, couldnt resist. I cant remember where I saw it but I did once have a link to hand made swords, I think it was actually via the martial arts equipment supplier Blitz. They do the cheap Paul Chen practical Katannas but also hand mades that are special order, will try and find details for you.

Rgds

[Mr_Yarrow]

Cant find Blitz, but Google found these;

http://therionarms.com/reenact/therionarms_c561.html

http://www.bugei.com/subcategory_6.htm

http://www.swordsdirect.com/paul_chen_professional.html

Or in the UK;

http://www.thaitsuki.co.uk/practical_japanese_katana.htm

[ggfh666]

If it has to be Japanese, I'm afraid it will be very hard.
If a Chinese made copy is OK there's plenty of options.
Is it a display piece or functional? Shirasaya or full mounting?

[MotorbikeMan]

Barringtons (http://www.swords.co.uk/jap_folded.htm) have a range of handmade Japanese swords, not sure how the prices compare though, but some of them are well within a grand

[ggfh666]

Barringtons (http://www.swords.co.uk/jap_folded.htm) have a range of handmade Japanese swords, not sure how the prices compare though, but some of them are well within a grand
But they are Chinese (Paul Chen).
I have a Tiger Tanto and it is very good for its price.


some suppliers but without looking at price range;-)
http://www.nihontoya.com/directory/Swords.html
http://www.japanszwaard.nl/nl/zwaarden.html
http://www.japanese-swords.com/index.htm
http://www.japanesesword.com/
http://www.aoi-art.com/
http://japanesesword.net/eng/shinsakuto/index.html
http://iaido.tozando.com/shinsakuto/index.html
http://www.samurai-store.com/sword/index.html (replica)
http://swordstore.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/02nav/00how-main.html
www.ninecircles.co.uk ( chinese made shinken but very good, used by many of our clubmembers, both iaito and shinken)
http://www.sho-shin.com/
other :

http://pages.prodigy.net/tlbuck/sword.htm

[Martyn]

For a £1000, your best bet is probably a high end Paul Chen (Chinese copy), http://www.bugei.com/ do a range of the better Chen swords (I have a mid range Chen sword and the quality is quite good). I say "best bet" in that a Paul Chen Chinese copy will get you the best functional sword for the cash available. The obvious downside is that it's not an original Japanese sword. If you want an authentic, high quality, top condition Japanese sword, with original furniture, you'd better up that budget to something closer to £10,000 or more. You can get an authentic Nihonto for £1000, but the condition and quality is likely to be very ropey. That said, £2500 will get a decent original in Shirasaya too.

Bottom line, A £1000 will get a poor quality original or a good quality Chinese copy. If it's purely for display purposes, I would go with the poor quality Japanese original. If it's for use (martial arts) I would go for the working Chinese copy.

[grahamw]

Barringtons (http://www.swords.co.uk/jap_folded.htm) have a range of handmade Japanese swords, not sure how the prices compare though, but some of them are well within a grand


Some nice swords at Barringtons, but I wonder about the description-
The "Yanling" sword apparently has "a beautifully patterned FOLDED SWEDISH POWDER STEEL fullered blade"

Isn't that kind of an oxymoron, or is it just me that is a moron? :D
I didn't think that powder steel could be used like that...

Grhaam.

[ggfh666]

I believe some Chen swords are made this way as well.
They put 2 slightly different steels together. Since they are powdered no need to weld the different bars together.

Don't know exact procedure.

[Danzo]

If it is advice on real Japanese swords you want them PM or email Greyman, he is pretty expert on such things.

Danzo

[ZDP-189]

Surely it negates the purpose of folding tamaghane to make it from layered powder steel?

Good advice, Martyn. For a grand you might get your sword polished in Japan. Might.

The good Chinese copies are not bad at all, if you're going to bang it about. I have a Practical Plus and the level of workmanship is beyond what I'd expect for the price.

There are exceptions, but westerners who make swords generally try to sell copies for Japanese prices. They are largely no more faithful to the original practices than the Chinese copies. If you want a sword you would want to swing, buy Chinese.

[mojofilter]

If it is advice on real Japanese swords you want them PM or email Greyman, he is pretty expert on such things.

Danzo


I thought you were the man for the swords Danzo.....

:D

[Danzo]

I thought you were the man for the swords Danzo.....

:D

Ninja, swords, Mojo, Ninja swords. Roger is enquiring after a katana, a sword exclusively used by the evil Samurai, eternal enemy of the Ninja.

:ninja

Danzo

[roger986]

Thanks for all the replys guys, I will pass this onto him.

Roger

[Wayne D]

There are exceptions, but westerners who make swords generally try to sell copies for Japanese prices. They are largely no more faithful to the original practices than the Chinese copies. If you want a sword you would want to swing, buy Chinese.

or you get people like Howard Clark who was at Doc Prices' 'hammer in', who make beautiful blades in the traditional methods and deserve the money!

[Martyn]

or you get people like Howard Clark who was at Doc Prices' 'hammer in', who make beautiful blades in the traditional methods and deserve the money!

I think it's possible to argue that no western bladesmith uses 100% Japanese methods. In fact, it's probably pointless for a modern western bladesmith to even consider using 100% japanese methods as the resulting cost of the sword would be horrendously prohibitive. If you are going for a real nihonto, then Japanese is the only way to go (ohhhh, that rhymes :lol: ). The buyer is probably just as interested in the history and provenance around the sword, as the mechanical properties of the sword itself. The western bladesmith can only ever offer the latter.

Howard pitches his blades at the martial artist, at about the same level as the high end Chen's - working swords for people who are not that bothered about the provenance and a millenium of history of the genuine nihonto.

I'd have to agree with Dan, if you are not buying Japanese, they you dont get the history and provenance, all you get is simply "a sword". In that case, go for the best value for money - that has to be Chinese.

[Stuart Ackerman]

Micheal Bell uses the traditional methods, even the iron sand comes from Japan...

[Martyn]

Micheal Bell uses the traditional methods, even the iron sand comes from Japan...

OK, but what's the point? I mean if you use 100% traditional methods, no power tools, water stone polishes etc, then the sword is gonna cost massive $$$$ (actually just checked, Michael charges $16,000 to $20,000 for such a blade). If you are gonna spend that much, then you might at well get a genuine Japanese sword. Why would you buy one from a western smith? No offence to any western makers, but Japanese smiths studdied for years under masters to perfect thier art - can any western smith boast the same? Even Micheal Bell's Japanese apprenticeship, while pretty unique among western bladesmiths, is only 5 years long. Pretty short by traditional Japanese standards. Even if his swords are of equal to the Japanese masters, they are not Japanese and dont have a history. So what's the point? For $20,000 you can get a high quality nihonto, with 500 years of history, from a well known Japanese maker (with a high resale value) - why would you buy anything else?

[Stuart Ackerman]

His prices have certainly shot up!!:O
I bought a Bell blade only, for US $2300-00 in 1998...
BUT, point taken, Martyn...get fillet steak, rather than hamburger:)

[ggfh666]

BTW Japanese smiths use power hammers as well these days for the rough forging.

[ZDP-189]

His prices have certainly shot up!!:O
I bought a Bell blade only, for US $2300-00 in 1998...
BUT, point taken, Martyn...get fillet steak, rather than hamburger:)

More like Kobe beef, rather than USDA Angus.

[scruff]

Not dropped by for a couple of days but...


BTW Japanese smiths use power hammers as well these days for the rough forging.

...glad you pointed this one out!!

I think the original question was for a Japanese Katana for a £1000. If I understand this right he means a Japanese made Shinsakuto, in which case I'd say £2000 is more of a realistic startin price. That's as a basic flat rate that might not even cover fittings, saya and a limited length.

A few of the sites mentioned are very reputable in Japan for practicle live blades.

Tozando is an excellent company and the Nishjin Sword (http://japanesesword.net/eng/) is one of its sites that produces the real deal. I'd thoroughly recommend it unless the buyer has other ways of making contact and placing an order with a smithy directly.

Why do people buying live blades have to buy old ones?!

Like I said there's plenty of Japanese smiths practicing 'the art' today that are producing equally as fine a blade as they did 200-300 years ago.

I visited a smith who's master was, until his death, one of the few Japanese to be awarded the honour of living national treasure, for the skill and preservation of his art.

[steve C]

Hi you could try the International arms fair at the National moterbike musium Birmingham

Iv' used a Chen Orchid Katana from Baringtons for some years and it cut vary well
but for banging about the Practical Plus is a good functional sword

[Xunil]

On the flip side of some of the previous comments, although I like and appreciate Japanese original blades (I own and use several) there's a lot to be said for a western interpretation made from inherently superior and uniform metals.

I saw a Yoshinda Yoshihara blade a couple of years ago that had a flaw in the weld running for the last two thirds of the blade, right through to the point. It sold for a small fortune and was beautifully polished with a lovely hamon, but the flaw was obvious nevertheless.

Finding someone who produces quality blades for the kind of price you quote could be your real problem. Japanese blades are labour intensive to produce and quite difficult to reliably heat treat. The mounts are also an art to make in themselves.

On the plus side, you could possibly source an original blade of reasonably good quality for around or just over half of your budget and invest in a repolish and simple furniture.

There are several very capable sword polishers in the UK.

I guess it all boils down to what it will be used for and how happy the user would be with something that is not Japanese.