Knives In A Vehicle

[ANDYLASER]

Here's One For You. I Know About A 3" Slipjoint Being The Only Legal Carry. But What About In A Vehicle? We Have A 4 Wheel Drive And In The Back Is A Camping Stove (tea At Any Time), Also A Bag With Kettle And Mugs Etc, But Also A Folding Spade, Folding Saw And An Old Usmc Style Survival Knife With 5" Fixed Blade. It Is Well Buried And Not To Hand, But Is Still There As We Might Have To Cut Wood For A Fire If We Run Out Of Gas. Any Opinions - Cheers

[Colin KC]

Andy, whilst I suspect you'll never get nicked for it, you'll be hard pushed to get a definitive *yes* from either Five-oh, or Ross (nature of the job)

I'd say it cant do any harm, provided it's well & truly buried & not accessible except in an emergency (perhaps a lock & hidden key?)

[ANDYLASER]

Its Not So Much Lock And Key, As It Is Blankets On Top Of Kit Bag. Maybe I Should "dig Deeper". Possibly In Spare Wheel Storage.

[ANDYLASER]

Or Maybe I Should Buy A "camping Axe" As Advertised By Various Manufacturers. Then I Could Wrap It In A Copy Of The Ad To Prove Its Use.

[ANDYLASER]

I Wonder If There Is A Market For A 3" Slip Joint Axe????

[Kakster]

I think technically, the inside of your vehicle is a public place in the eyes of the law. So its perfectly possible for you to get charged for carrying in a public place. However, i have no idea how likely it is in real life. I'll leave that to the legal types who frequent this forum.

[Colin KC]

Hmm, four posts on a six post thread, not trying to get your

[Colin KC]

post count

[MushiSushi]

I think the answer is 42, but i've forgotten the question. ;)

seriously though, in a half decent looking car, you don't really have much to worry about unless you decide to use your 4x4 to ram raid a local branch of mothercare. If you don't have a habit of doing illegal things, they'll never search. I used to drive around ina few beat up cars in my 20's, and got searched twice, not serious searched and it was only because the car looked a bit suspect. I worked as a site carpenter and kept all sorts of things in the boot, from crowbars, to knives, etc. etc. ... both times the cops didn't really pay much attention and the search was really just going through the motions, something to do while they made themselves content that i was harmless. the contents of the boot didn't really interest them.

[Colin KC]

up

[Colin KC]

by any chance:rolleyes:;)

[Colin KC]

Well said Mushy,

I don' really think that it's an issue, esp if the tool in question is wrapped up with the *other* emergency equipment & buried real deep;)

[Danzo]

Whilst the car is a public place you are allowed to have a fixed blade knife (indeed, most weapons) if you have a 'good reason'. I think that in a 4WD with the tools and hot drink stuff (and maybe also a first aid kit) then it would simply be viewed as part of your 'emergency kit' and that would provide the good reason.

:p

Danzo

[MushiSushi]

well that makes sense ..... legally speaking .... practice involves some variables :p

[ANDYLASER]

Cheers For Your Thoughts-now Where's That First Aid Kit

[999]

Colin, You're A Sharp One...

[Hellz]

I keep a serrated 'rescue' knife in my 4x4, along with a folding saw, folding spade, heavy wire clippers and an axe... I hope that if my vehicle is ever searched it will be taken in context. :(

Having said that, I haven't been pulled over, searched, etc. since I've grown up and stopped driving things that look like they have escaped from a scrappy...

Hellz

[keith_beef]

Whilst the car is a public place you are allowed to have a fixed blade knife (indeed, most weapons) if you have a 'good reason'. I think that in a 4WD with the tools and hot drink stuff (and maybe also a first aid kit) then it would simply be viewed as part of your 'emergency kit' and that would provide the good reason.

:p

Danzo

DANZO! You used the W word!

First, although I keep saying to people that nothing really surprises me any more, I really, really don't understand how my private car came to be considered "a public place"...

Surely it doesn't fit into the description of a public place like a privately owned and operated cinema or shop (to which members of the public have access, albeit limited to certain times of day or under certain conditions such as paying an admission fee).

It's my car, I decide who gets in it (OK, leaving aside people who force entry or use some other method of defeating the locks).

Apart from that, Andy Laser mentions having a stove in the back. It's a bloody kitchen! he can have kitchen knives in there, can't he? AFAIK, having a stove, a couple of tins of emergency rations, a chopping board and a jar of mustard should be sufficient 'corroborating evidence' or whatever, to justify the presence of a couple of fixed blade knives.

Why not go the whole hog, and have some kind of locking knife drawer, with the chopping board sitting on top (I've seen a similar sort of think in Ikea, honest, but meant for a household kitchen). ...



KKK.

[stonehard]

funny I got pulled over a week ago and the Bill never even looked twice at my Louisville Slugger sticking out of my gym bag. Of course I think they were a little more interested in my collection of porn on the back seat. (old army trick) that they also missed my MkIV flame thrower that was lying on the floor next to a box of Claymores.

[Kevin Wilkins]

Wouldn't it be ironic to have a road accident, just manage to get out alive because you had a knife in your emergency kit and then end up in prison! Sounds like the plot an Evelyn Waugh novel.

[soa]

While waiting for Ross to arrive, I'd ask what is your worry?
If you've got a good reason for carrying said object (e.g. Keith's kitchen knife) you have your reason; if you are not lippy with the police, it's unlikely you'll get a hard time.

[No guarantees, but in 40 odd years, I must have been stopped by police on over 15-20 occasions. Usually because: carrying bag after recent burglary - "Would you open that bag?" - "Certainly officer"; seen in area where recent mugging "Where you just been son?" - [cut glass/RP] "Just been down to the pub, and called for a curry on the way home officer, I think I've the receipt somewhere..."[/cut glass/RP]. "Don't bother"; seen in drink "You OK son?" "Sorry officer, too much to drink tonight; I'm in for a bad head in the morning" - "Just be careful"; Pushing motorbike down road "Son, you're in charge of it, wear your bloody hat" "Sorry officer".

I've asked policemen where to get a late drink "Don't go there it's dodgy, and you're too scruffy to get in there - so-andso's is your best bet"; where to get a coffee; and often how the hell to get back to wherever I set off from.

*Never* had a problem; *never* been disrespectful.

[Ross]

What soa said!

Seriously, if you have an emergency kit in your car, dont worry about it. If you keep a kitchen knife under the front seat then be prepared to get arrested.

[Kevin]

Ross.

What if someone is living in the car...as in a camper type thing.....in addition, what about camping......say a tent.

Would that still change things?........would the tent/camper van become a 'dwelling'?

[MushiSushi]

http://www.the-earchives.com/wavs/f/famguy102.wav

please click link and refresh

[Kevin]

http://www.the-earchives.com/wavs/f/famguy102.wav

please click link and refresh

No page/link showing

I know that a tent and even someone living in a vehicle was classed as a dwelling for the purposes of entry and searching ....just wondering if anything had changed.

[MushiSushi]

that's why you got to refresh the page kev ;)

[Ross]

Up here, a dwelling is a roofed building (plus some other wording...finished or otherwise blah blah blah), tricky one though, maybe a warrant would be required to gain entry. Anyone here live in a tent?

[Kevin]

Up here, a dwelling is a roofed building (plus some other wording...finished or otherwise blah blah blah), tricky one though, maybe a warrant would be required to gain entry. Anyone here live in a tent?

A ''dwelling" for the purposes of a 'burglary' (for stat purposes anyway!) is always changing (to suit political needs?).ie sheds used to be , then they were not etc etc..but I seem to remember that someones vehicle could become a persons abode (although not a 'fixed' abode) when contemplating searches......same with tents.
Lets face it, someones home COULD be a tent, whether temporary or not....same as a camper van.

I seem to remember someone kicked out of home, although temporarily, but had spare clothes in his car, and was sleeping in it...became a dwelling, so not a 'public' place.


Daaaannnnnzzzzoooooooooooo :)

[Ross]

Shhhhhhhhh the babies asleep!

[Danzo]

Not any more you bunch of noisy :censored: s

:)

Downstairs and cuddle time......

:biggthump

Danzo

[ANDYLASER]

So If A Car Is A Public Place, Next Time I Am Walking Home From The Chippy And It Starts Raining, Can I Jump Into SomeonEs Car To Take Shelter? I Would Share My Chips.

[Danzo]

Only if its Ross's fast response Cosworth and you also bring him a scotch pie and a deep fried Mars bar.

:cop:

Danzo

[bagman]

Only if its Ross's fast response Cosworth and you also bring him a scotch pie and a deep fried Mars bar.

:cop:

Danzo

:lmao:

I realy realy HATE those mutton pies :yikes:

[Ross]

actually, me too! Give me a chicken kebab anyday.....

[MushiSushi]

I thought you guys only ate doughnuts and twinkies?

http://www.the-earchives.com/wavs/s/simpsn47.wav
hit and refresh :p;)

[dave750gixer]

The trick with mutton pies is to put them inside a plain unbuttered roll that way the fat doesnt all run out over your hands and clothes and congeal. Keeps your hands clean and soaks up all of the lovely juices so that you dont lose any of those valuable calories.

Same trick with sausage rolls means you dont loose all of the pastry all over the place. :yumyum:

[reggad]

I used to live in trailers and vehicles, and at the time they seemed to be classed as private dwellings by the local constabulary. Though I think the definition of a private living vehicle may have changed since ( post c.j.a. etc).

[reggad]

Going slightly off thread The Butter Pie is the king, though no one seems to have heard of them outside Lancashire!

[Ophidian]

I’m not unduly worried about this issue but was wondering about the aspect of the inside of a car being a public place.

I currently have two vehicles:

1970 SWB Softop Land Rover with axe/shovels and other gear bolted to the outside (wings / tailgate) and other axes and tools in the cab and rear load area. I accept that if someone is inside this vehicle they do have access to the whole area (even if some tools are in large locked ammo boxes) and could gain access from the outside by opening up the canvass tilt…..fair enough.

A old Volvo 244 saloon (given to me by my Aunt) this has a huge boot, but it is not designed to carry people…..so is a locked boot still a public place? Is a boot a public place while on the move? If I have knives in my workbag locked in the boot, which I can’t access while driving, is this still a public place? Surely the fact that the manufacturer has fitted a lock to the boot and provided me with a key so that I can keep the public out of my car’s boot, indicates that it is a PRIVATE place?

Daft or what ?

[stonehard]

I read in the police training manuel today that if your knives can be deemed an offensive weapon (and get this) and you have them in a locked car whilst you are going for a wizzz. it is deemed that you are still linked to them and can be busted for having them in a public place. However the Book in question which was the lates copy didnt draw a distinction between lock knives and folding knives. All it said was 3" cutting edge and folding. No definition of folding.

As for pies In wigan they stick meat and potato pies in a bap add brown sauce and call it a sloppy butty. Who ate all the pies who ate all the pies.

[Danzo]

Yup, thats about it. Reggad is right to mention the link to folks living in vehicles 'cos it was the 'Battle of the Beanfield' (cue Levellers :D ) on the road to Stonehenge that caused the law to be changed.

:mad:

Not the finest hour of the Police in this country, or indeed in any country that likes to think it respects the Rule of Law; nor the most thought through legislation ever passed. But this isn't the place for that debate.

Your vehicle is a public place. It makes it easier to search without a warrant or the requisite 'reasonable suspicion' otherwise required for many offences. I'm sure Ross will clarify if I am wrong.

:(

Danzo

[Ross]

Nope, sounds about right. As I said before, if you carry a knife under your front seat - get ready to be lifted. If you carry a knife as part of an emergency kit in the boot - dont worry about it.

[Richie]

Car = Public place, but if parked in your garage it would come under a private place.
And a private place is only a private place if you would normally have access to it. So if you ran into someones house with a knife it would be a classed a public place with regards to Police powers. Confused yet?? :lol:
Dwelling = Building or part of a building that has to have some sort of permanence. A car is not permanent. (Don't ask about caravans either!!! ;) )
As for knifes you can be "lifted" as it has been put for any pointed or bladed article and the burden of proof is on you to prove why you had it. An exemption is a folding pocket knife, none locking and under a certain length.

However, should you be caught pulling this on someone then it becomes a Offensive Weapon.

Offensive weapon either being defined by law as illegal ie. a flick knife, butterfly knife etc
Or meeting one of these

Made, intended or adapted for use as a Offensive weapon.

As for a knife in your vehicle I would suggest common sense prevails here, that you don't have it readily available to hand (Ie under your seat) when you are travelling around unless out in the sticks.

If you do get stopped by the Police as long as you have a reasonable excuse you should have nothing to worry about.

Hope this helps

Regards

Richie :)