Hi guys (belt buckle knife legal or illegal)

[fireben]

Hi guys,

i have just bought a belt buckle knife over the net from the us.
http://www.wedon'tdoillegal.com
Which they say is perfectly legal in the us. but now i have got it i have read your legal stuff and found out that its not legal to cary a lock knife even if its blade is less then 4" witch it is.
Now this confuses me as the leatherman wave has a locked blade and as a sailer i have walked around town and around the dock with it on my belt as does every other sailer i now. so ok maybe thats illegal but its not even as if its only to be used on a boat as bye what i have read here a boat docked is considered a public place, it has no fences or signs.
so i need some opinions from u guys, is it trully illegal or is it debatable.
and if you were me would you go ahead and wear it.
thanxs
fireben

[ZDP-189]

I believe it's not only illegal, but you're probably going to antagonise the police by wearing it.

[ODS]

If you have a legit use for the Leatherman ..such as for your trade/work/job/out trekking/camping/boating/etc.. then you may carry it upon you.

Viewed by the law though it is a locking blade knife. It is deemed illegal, unless once agian you have it for one of the reasons listed above.



The belt buckle knife is designed to be hidden or covert/stealth.. its use..a sneak attack and to bypass lousy security checks that may not be aware of it being a knife. They describe how to open it as quickly as you can.

Reading their FAQ section on the site they state they are not lawyers and keep referring to themselves as "we believe", not what the law says. True they point out he internal part being the blade/latch for the belts that are illegal, but yet they still state this is 'their definition of those laws". Which if there was a problem and it became a court hearing it would be up to the judge to decide if the knife is legal or not and the definition of the law. True while the knife is fully visible and no hidden parts or blades it is still designed not to attract to much attention...basically they are playing with a possible loophole in the law. Many companies do this and profit till the law says its illegal.

So to answer your question about the Leatherman: yes if used for work/recreation, No if just carrying it around.

is the belt knife illegal...yes it is a locking blade and I would have to say it may also be illegal in the UK due to the design. Though ask Ross on that as he is a Police Officer and would know better on that one...but the locking part already is a no-no

You may want to ask your question in the Laws Forum section

cheers,
Joe

Seems to be who ever you bought this from did not label the customs form correctly describing the contents of the package correctly so it cleared customs. Most likely they knew it was illegal and just didn't tell you and wanted to make the sale.

This would be why you had to buy it in the US and not finding them here in the UK

cheers,
Joe

[Martyn]

Please read...

Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 and the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988 makes it an offence to manufacture, sell or hire or offer for sale or hire, or expose or have in possession for the purpose of sale or hire or lend or give to any person any of the following weapons [7]:

Balisong or butterfly knife
Knuckleduster
Telescopic truncheon
Push dagger
Shuriken, shaken, or death star
Handclaw
Footclaw
Manrikgusari or kusari (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at each end to a hard weight or hand grip)
Swordstick
Hollow kubotan (cylindrical container containing a number of sharp spikes)
Blowpipe or blowgun
Kusari gama (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a sickle)
Kyoketsu shoge (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a hooked knife)
Belt buckle knife


and...


3. The Schedule to the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988[2], which specifies offensive weapons for the purposes of section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, shall be amended by the insertion into paragraph 1 of that Schedule after sub-paragraph (n) the words -


" (o) a disguised knife, that is any knife which has a concealed blade or concealed sharp point and is designed to appear to be an everyday object of a kind commonly carried on the person or in a handbag, briefcase, or other hand luggage (such as a comb, brush, writing instrument, cigarette lighter, key, lipstick or telephone).".

Ambiguous?

Nope... They are a banned item.

[fireben]

Thanks Zdp-189 and Ods.

that clears things up a bit, so i think the verdict is not to wear it in public unless iam prepared for a long court battle. "Bother" well glade i checked first.
but i would be able to wear it in the same situations as i would wear my leatherman? or does its nature make it an ofensive weapon? and can you take out the lock on locked knifes?
thanxs pete.

[fireben]

:thanks: Martyn

well that pritty much ends that discussion, just out of intrest what kind of trouble would i be looking at if i was cort with it i public. Not saying that i would wear it intentionaly in public after this discution but if i forgot i was wearing it.
glad this foram was hear to keep me out of trouble :)
didnt seem to get much from the police web sites.
pete.

[ODS]

Ross would be the one to answer you on the trouble end of it as he is the locol Copper among us....but I would say loss of the knife and possible fine.

cheers,
Joe

[Martyn]

Hmmm, as regards penalty of ownership/carry... well according to the act, actually owning one isn't illegal, but it's an offence to manufacture, sell or hire or offer for sale or hire, or expose or have in possession for the purpose of sale or hire or lend or give to any person, so it's impossible to legally acquire one. However, if you already own one. well - who knows. :)

Sources...
Criminal Justice Act 1988 (http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880033_en_12.htm#mdiv141) (section 141 - legislation)
The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988 (http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1988/Uksi_19882019_en_2.htm) (description of banned items)

(Joe, the above 2 links are very pertinent to your business, if you're not 100% familar, they're well worth a quick browse/bookmark for reference.)

[keith_beef]

As has been pointed out, a belt-buckle knife is specifically mentioned in the list of "banned items".

I can't see any "good reason for carry" that you might use.

However, as to possession or acquisition, I think that if you have a collection you could possibly use the defences outlined in sections 3 and 4 of the 1997 act, which Ross posted here: http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1648

Well, I am not a lawyer, not a police officer; just a hobbyist and collector wanting to keep on the right side of the law.


KKK.

[Danzo]

There is no provision for 'good reason' for carrying with the items on the banned list. They are all 'offensive weapons' by definition and as such you can face up to two years in prison for carrying one.

:yikes:

You may have them in your own home however.

Danzo

[MushiSushi]

you were a very naughty boy for importing it ben :twak: ... but it's done now .

and we won't tell anyone ........ if you carefully tuck it down the back of your armchair and send me the armchair :D;)

welcome to the forums :D

[Ophidian]

No question about it, 100% illegal here in the UK.

You mention the fact that you are a sailor. Is that sailor as in the Navy or as in yachting club member? If you are travelling the world there may well be plenty of countries where you buckle knife is legal, but what about Naval rules?

I had a look at the site (reminds me of the mini pistol in a buckle). To be honest, if I where in the market (WHICH I AM NOT) for such a buckle knife, then I’d want something far more covert than this design.

[stonehard]

I have had a Gerber Touche that I brought from Framar for years. I dont use it any more but it was really the business if you wanted a knife but not in your pocket. Its a shame really coz its quite an inoffensive knife unlike the one Arnine Swartzwhatever used in that film when he played a Rushian. Red somthing or other.

[Ophidian]

I guess you mean these

http://cutlerscove.com/jack-knives/gerber-touche-comosite.htm

Far more covert :approve:

[stonehard]

infact one of these
http://cutlerscove.com/jack-knives/gerber-touche-slim.htm

[Ophidian]

Well I was right, just need to click the "go here" tab

[fireben]

thanxs guys for all the replys.

Sounds like i have to find a space on my wall, shame.
no iam not in the navy just in the yaughting cyrcle.
Iam in antigua at the moment and had it shipped to a mate in the states who floow it over here, thats probable why there was no problem with customs will i have a problem getting it into england if i put it in my checked lugage, never had a problem before but admitadly never tryed with anything in that banded list before.
sorry Mushisushi i need all my armchairs :biggthump
guess its a case of all suffering for the sins of the nutters. bore :banghead:
well thanxs again guys defintley going to beback here often. good info resource and good to talk to other blade fanatics, and going to check with you guys before i make my next buy. :D
pete.

[Ophidian]

You need to be very careful asking such a question on a public forum! :yikes:

You might try shipping the knife and belt separately but it would be confiscated if found and Customs Officers are trained to recognise such items. If caught you will be in a lot of trouble and if you tried taking it on a plane (on your person) you might end up being a guest at Camp X-Ray or on the evening news. :bandit:

Is it worth the risk for a $100 little knife ???? :twak:

[Danzo]

Hi again fireben

Like what Ophi said and just to remind you that the letter of the law is that it is an offensive weapon and completely illegal to import into this country, checked luggage or not, with a possible penalty of two years in prison.

:yikes:

Be careful, think twice!

;)

Danzo

[Ross]

Yup, totally illegal & risks a huge fine / jail time. Not worth it. If you NEED a knife, use your Leatherman. Keep it inside as a conversation piece.

:cop:

[MushiSushi]

Ah ..... so it's not in england yet? ....... I wouldn't even try to bring it in ........ too risky :naughty:

[Ophidian]

Hey! I know we could use it as an international pass around and see who gets busted first...take bets...score extra points for wearing it at famous landmarks.

No, I’m only joking :p

[ODS]

The Movie was Red Heat, first US movie to ever film in the Moscow Square (or what ever it is called) I believe. ....another one he used in Eraser on the plane seen when he was drugged

[Colin KC]

Debate away guys, but I've now closed the poll!

We can't have such things as the subject of polls here!

Mind you, it was anonymously against;)

[fireben]

thanxs for all the advice guys will play it safe i think. :biggthump
pete