Boring scandinavian knives

[ZDP-189]

My first attempt at a scandi has ended in 50% failure. True, I failed to make a knife shaft and ruined a beautiful piece of stabilised Thuya burl, but salvaged two scales and didn't harm Trond's blade.

I couldn't fit the block on the mini-mill and couldn't get enough clearance on the drill press, so I attempted to freehand bore and ream the tang slot. I managed to keep it straight, but the slot skewed to the top of the handle, eventually punching through the top of the block.

Well I swallowed my pride and fished the wood from the bin and half an our with a saw and a router later and I have two fairly fat scales. I could always do a split shaft and mill out the tang slot from the scales, but I really need to get to grips with the proper technique of scandi making.

Can anyone tell me what I should have done, before I deplete the rest of the Finnish forrests?

[Martyn]

Definitely dont attempt to freehand drill the hole. Clamp your work into a workmate, secure the drillpress base to the same workmate and rotate the head of the press out. It'll give you more than enough clearance, just make sure everything is securely clamped before you drill, and take an age getting the alignment right, true and square.

"measure twice, cut once" ;)


But I've never made one, so apart from saying it always pays to make sure everything is clamped solid and trued up, I have no idea. :D

[ZDP-189]

Thanks Martyn, I'll go home and have a look at the drill press.

[Trond]

Personally i have never used any drill press to drill the tang hole, heres what i do:

I shape the handle as i want it, and then i mark the center of the handle in the front, mark three marks where i want to drill the holes, and drill three holes in the handle, the first a litle above cener drilling diagonal downwards, then i drill the second hole below center diagonal uppwards, and let the two holes meet in the back. Finally i drill the third hole straight in from the center between the two previus holes.
I hold the handle in my left hand, horizontally and the drill in my right hand, and uses my eysight to get the holes straight.
Now i use a small pointy saw and saw the material between the holes.
I also use the saw to adjust the hole so that the blade fitts into the hole, like pikken i grete :)

[Kevin]

Personally i have never used any drill press to drill the tang hole, heres what i do:

I shape the handle as i want it, and then i mark the center of the handle in the front, mark three marks where i want to drill the holes, and drill three holes in the handle, the first a litle above cener drilling diagonal downwards, then i drill the second hole below center diagonal uppwards, and let the two holes meet in the back. Finally i drill the third hole straight in from the center between the two previus holes.
I hold the handle in my left hand, horizontally and the drill in my right hand, and uses my eysight to get the holes straight.
Now i use a small pointy saw and saw the material between the holes.
I also use the saw to adjust the hole so that the blade fitts into the hole, like pikken i grete :)

I do pretty much the same as Trond if its a rat tail tang...but I dont shape the handle till the tang will fit.
If the tang needs a helping hand then I may heat the very end of the tang/point to a red heat and use it to burn/push the tang in (only on soft woods and not hard woods)...but be careful not to heat the blade and dont burn and crack the wood (I found out that hard woods tend to crack with this method :( )

There are lots of ways..just have to find what works best for you.

:)

[Dave Barker]

I make sure the blade fits before I shape the handle too.

I use small needle files to eexpand the holes tho ( after the saw has been used.)

Freehand drilling works ok, but you have to have a steady hand.

You can do it bu drilling just the one hole in the middle and use a hole saw to grt the rest done.

If you need one then I'm sure we can get one to you. See peaple, these things are maybe not as easy to make as you as you thought they were ;)

[Tvividr]

This is the saws / rasps that I use http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36554#post36554

For final adjustments I also use fine needlefiles.
I usually fit the blade before shaping the handle - method is very similar to the way Trond does it (except for the "shaped handle before drilling" part, and I do not hold the woodblock in my hand).
I may use my drill press, but usually I drill freehand while the woodblock is fastened in a vice. I feel it is easier and that I have better control if I do it by hand.

[Dave Barker]

I couldn't fit the block on the mini-mill and couldn't get enough clearance on the drill press, so I attempted to freehand bore and ream the tang slot. I managed to keep it straight, but the slot skewed to the top of the handle, eventually punching through the top of the block.



Can anyone tell me what I should have done, before I deplete the rest of the Finnish forrests?


There is one thing that I forgot to mntion Zed.

If you had carried on and shaped the handle you could have covered the hole!

How, well you could have mixed some of the dust with either epoxy or superglue, filled the hole and then just filed/sanded with the rt of the knife. You would have been left with a dark spot.. but thuya is dark so it would have been fine. Alternatively you could have used melted shellac to the same effect.... Bit late now tho really eh!? :banghead:

[ZDP-189]

There is one thing that I forgot to mntion Zed.

If you had carried on and shaped the handle you could have covered the hole!

How, well you could have mixed some of the dust with either epoxy or superglue, filled the hole and then just filed/sanded with the rt of the knife. You would have been left with a dark spot.. but thuya is dark so it would have been fine. Alternatively you could have used melted shellac to the same effect.... Bit late now tho really eh!? :banghead:

Yeah, a bit late, seeing as I've ground it to two tiny pieces. And also ordered replacement wood.

I did save some wood dust for later, but no matter how seamlessly I'd have patched it, I'd still know it was there and the evidence of my poor skills and planning would have haunted me. :banghead:

[ZDP-189]

DennisH says next time, I can moderately overbore and fill. I expect that will reduce the need to go randomly poking about with a bit trying to join holes. I just don't have Trond's experience in that department.

Also, overboring with a 5-7mm bit will allow me to use a longer bit and that'll help too. Lacking a long bit for my previous attempt, I had to extend the bit till only the last 4mm was still in the chuck. Not safe.

[Dave Barker]

DennisH says next time, I can moderately overbore and fill. I expect that will reduce the need to go randomly poking about with a bit trying to join holes. I just don't have Trond's experience in that department.

Also, overboring with a 5-7mm bit will allow me to use a longer bit and that'll help too. Lacking a long bit for my previous attempt, I had to extend the bit till only the last 4mm was still in the chuck. Not safe.

This is a metter of preference, but I'd like to offer an opinion if i may.

Firstly invest in a long shaftet HSS drill Bit. The best are DORMA, and I would bet that brisa have these. if not then tell me what dimensions you want and I'll se what I can do from here.

As for the bit about overboring, this can make it hard to get a good fit between shaft and tang and can resylt in the blade being off center.

I personally drill only one hole in the middle of the block ( I use a small dimension bit first as a guide then the size I need) Doing this gives you a little bit of room for an unsteady hand.

I make where the shoulders of the blade should go on the front of the piece then saw up to the lines. filing is the bit that takes the time.

Thing is there are prolly loads of ways to do this , and everyone will have their own idea. I can't stress though how important it is in my opinion to drill the hole a little undersized and then expand it with a file til it is a good tight fit around the tang and blade.

[ZDP-189]

Following my lousy week-end working on the scandi, I reckon it may be my last for awhile. I need to complete this one to make use of Tronds lovely blade and to be able to say that I've done it, but after that, I may leave it to the pros.

This time, I am taking no chances. I have ordered two new blocks of birch from DennisH and two sets of spacers and bolsters. I have the post drill ready, and I'll go get everything I need, including a new vise (vice/ vise ? I'm not talking about smoking).

[ZDP-189]

Dennis' parts arrived in time for the weekend and have ended up in the new knife. I've posted pictures and a description here (http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41059#post41059). Thanks also Dennis for the email and suggestion on overboring. It worked a charm. I also kinda styled my knife after the scandi tutorial on your website.

Thanks to Martyn for the advice on the drill press; I went for a few spacers and that allowed me to use a smaller piece of wool with a shallower hole and more drill clearance.

Trond, while I didn't have the skill to use your technique, the blade's awesome. I know have 3 completed knives with your blades. My next knife will be stock reduced from a billet, so I'll appreciate your all the more!

Kevin, as you suggested, I shaped the handle after the blade was set. This allowed me to correct for any mis-alignment. I didn't burn the tang in, though as I didn't want to stink the kitchen out.

Dave, I agree it's not as easy as it seems, but it gets easier the more you make. That's partly the reason I started making my own - to see what goes into making a knife and appreciate a well-made knife.

Gerd, thanks. I used needle files a bit, but by overboring and filling with slow-set epoxy, I didn't have to do much filing.

Thanks all! The last knife went much better. :biggthump

[keith_beef]

This is a metter of preference, but I'd like to offer an opinion if i may.

Firstly invest in a long shaftet HSS drill Bit. The best are DORMA, and I would bet that brisa have these. if not then tell me what dimensions you want and I'll se what I can do from here.

As for the bit about overboring, this can make it hard to get a good fit between shaft and tang and can resylt in the blade being off center.

I personally drill only one hole in the middle of the block ( I use a small dimension bit first as a guide then the size I need) Doing this gives you a little bit of room for an unsteady hand.

I make where the shoulders of the blade should go on the front of the piece then saw up to the lines. filing is the bit that takes the time.

Thing is there are prolly loads of ways to do this , and everyone will have their own idea. I can't stress though how important it is in my opinion to drill the hole a little undersized and then expand it with a file til it is a good tight fit around the tang and blade.

DORMA? Are you sure it's not "Dormer", Dave?

It can be hard to find 5mm or 6mm wood drill bits long enough to drill the shaft all the way in one go. In my experience, the really long bits tend to be HSS Wormhole bits, meant for drilling metal (cast iron or aluminium engine blocks, for example).

Dennis H has some bits on www.brisa.fi that must be right for the job . He'd not stock them, otherwise, would he?

On the shafts for my Kankaanpää blades (still WIP, I'm afraid), I'm doing the shafts in several pieces. A piece of cherry wood, a slice of antler, a piece of black locust, another slice of antler, then another wood.

Doing things this way has two obvious advantages:
1. you are drilling shorter pieces of wood, so you can get by with a normal length drill bit,
2. you can use smaller pieces of wood, offcuts, and if you mess up, there's is less loss.

On the other hand, you have to make sure that the mating surfaces of the different pieces are at the correct angles, and flat. OK, so there is probably a way to use a flexible spacer (leather) to take up any differences... but flatter is better, I expect.


KKK.

[kniv-per]

There are an easy way to solve the problem in drilling the hole
for the blade..
Look at the enclosed picture..
A smart tool that enables you to drill stright, and at the same time,
you dont have the walls between the drilled holes..
Comes with a 3mm and a 4 mm fitting..
If you need more info, please say so...

[Trond]

I love that tool, i want one, PM me the price Per ;)

[kniv-per]

Hello folks,,

The price for the tool are
Danish Kroner: 275,-
£27,-
shippingcost not included