Working ebony for a sghian dhu...

[keith_beef]

Anybody got any hints and tips on this?

I recently received a rather nice blade made for me by a well known craftsman in Hallamshire.

On Sunday, I got my brother in law (in-laws with power tools are a godsend) to slice a piece off my chunk of ebony, and I'll be starting the hard, time consuming job of boring out the handle and then carving it to shape.

I've seen some of these daggers with what looks like a slight curve to the handle, so that when it's in the stocking top, the pommel is turned slightly away from the leg. Have any of you seen a handle like this? Maybe point me to an image?


KKK.

[MushiSushi]

ebony isn't one of those woods that is very conducive to carving, high speed burrs (if carving anything intricate), drum sanders (where a dust mask please :) ) and lots of hand sanding to shape

[keith_beef]

ebony isn't one of those woods that is very conducive to carving, high speed burrs (if carving anything intricate), drum sanders (where a dust mask please :) ) and lots of hand sanding to shape

When my brother in law saw the dust from just two passes on the circular saw, he was glad to be wearing a dust mask.

[ZDP-189]

I have worked ebony, as you can see from my recent posts. As you know, it's a very dense, high lignin content wood. Compared to soft woods, it's a complete nightmare, because:

(1) It's normally quite expensive and labour intensive, so if you make a mistake at a late stage, you'll be very p*ssed.

(2) The main problem as a material is there's no give (compression or bending) and that leads to cracks and full-on splitting or even shattering if the power tool gives no option but to resist or shatter.

(3) Also, when very thin it warps when wet. Yet it does not absorb protective oils as well as I'd like. However, it does take a good shine.

(4) The main production problem is that it doesn't cut readily. Carving and turning is a complete pain. On the lathe, my chisel grinds powder off the block, not shavings or turnings. Powder goes everywhere. Even with a filter mask, I can blow black snot into a hanky.

But yes, you can work it relatively easily with a medium or coarse file. Fine files clog quickly. Rasps gouge but don't work well.

In conclusion, it's not my first choice of material, but there are knives where is looks perfect. For example, where you want to carve and leave a lovely finish and where you have a high contrast second material like silver or brass or ivory.

If you're slotting out, I recommend a slowly, slowly approach. Drill with a long sharp steel boring bit. Use a drill press. Pilot the hole and go slowly or you'll over heat the tip or split the wood. I actually used water to lubricate the bit.

When you file out, use a coping saw blade to expand the corners and then a long fine wood chisel to pare off the walls. You can get a perfectly square hole that way. If you don't have a through slot in your shaft, you can use a narrow-ground jigsaw wood cutting blade.

Email me or post here if you have any specific questions.

[ZDP-189]

BTW, are you selling any of that wood?

[keith_beef]

I have worked ebony, as you can see from my recent posts. As you know, it's a very dense, high lignin content wood.

I didn't know it had a high lignin content, but I'm glad I know it now.
From my days playing in a crown green bolws league, I remember some of the woods being made from "lignite", that I was told was wood dust mixed with some sort of glue or resin (and not a sort of coal, before anybody mentions it). Now, I wonder if it was perhaps ebony dust, from the sawmill.


Compared to soft woods, it's a complete nightmare, because:


it's bloody hard!


(1) It's normally quite expensive and labour intensive, so if you make a mistake at a late stage, you'll be very p*ssed.


Well, I got a smallish chunk for around a tenner, but bigger pieces were considerably more expensive.


(2) The main problem as a material is there's no give (compression or bending) and that leads to cracks and full-on splitting or even shattering if the power tool gives no option but to resist or shatter.


I intend going slow and easy on it, and I might not try much in the way of carving...


(3) Also, when very thin it warps when wet. Yet it does not absorb protective oils as well as I'd like. However, it does take a good shine.


I found out about the warping overnight. I got the B-in-L to do two cuts, so I was left with a piece about 1.3/8" × 2.1/8" × 5.1/8" and a slice about 3/8" × 2.1/8" × 5.1/8". Overnight, the slice has bent, so that if I lay it against a flat surface, each end is about 1/16" up. Doesn't sount much, but very visible. If I'd been wanting slabs for a full-tang construction, I would have been heartily miffed.


(4) The main production problem is that it doesn't cut readily. Carving and turning is a complete pain.

Sound a little like the experience I had with leadwood. I have a chunk I'm slowly getting into shape. I used a saw, and a chisel to get nearer the line in the tricky bits. I found I was scraping off powder, rather than taking off shavings. That stuff seemed to give me worryingly reddish snot.


On the lathe, my chisel grinds powder off the block, not shavings or turnings. Powder goes everywhere. Even with a filter mask, I can blow black snot into a hanky.

But yes, you can work it relatively easily with a medium or coarse file. Fine files clog quickly. Rasps gouge but don't work well.

In conclusion, it's not my first choice of material, but there are knives where is looks perfect. For example, where you want to carve and leave a lovely finish and where you have a high contrast second material like silver or brass or ivory.


I intend to mount ... er, well, I'll leave that as a surprise, but using either 925 silver or nickel silver, and maybe a bit of tagua nut. maybe a bit of white vulcanised fibre, depending on how I decide to do the ferrule / bolster assembly.



If you're slotting out, I recommend a slowly, slowly approach. Drill with a long sharp steel boring bit. Use a drill press. Pilot the hole and go slowly or you'll over heat the tip or split the wood. I actually used water to lubricate the bit.


Yes, I think I'll be doing it this way, with long think three-point drills and a padsaw (I think it's called that, or maybe a keyhole saw) to "join the dots".


When you file out, use a coping saw blade to expand the corners and then a long fine wood chisel to pare off the walls. You can get a perfectly square hole that way. If you don't have a through slot in your shaft, you can use a narrow-ground jigsaw wood cutting blade.


I'm not sure I'll have room for chisels. Even my longest, thinnest chisel will be too thick for this. I'll have to use saws, rasps and files...



Email me or post here if you have any specific questions.

You know, I think you might just be hearing from me again :D Thanks so far.


KKK

[keith_beef]

BTW, are you selling any of that wood?

Sorry, but couple of girls in my jewellery class already want all my offcuts of ebony, snakewood, masur birch, leadwood, violet rosewood and even want nibbles off my tag nuts :yikes:

But I can always try to get a chunk for you, next time I see what I think is a good price.

This chunk was £9.95 for 127mm × 127mm × 51mm, part seasoned. Does that sound reasonable to you?


KKK.

[Sajuma]

They want to nibble your nuts? let them...

J

[ZDP-189]

I you want a chisel of the correct length, a needlt file blade smoothed on a belt sander and sharpened on a grinding wheel works great.

As for price - I'll respond tonight when I have checked Brisa and Alpha Knife Supply.

Thx!

[MushiSushi]

I recently bought a piece of 1 x 1 x 12" from axminster, was £2-77

[keith_beef]

I recently bought a piece of 1 x 1 x 12" from axminster, was £2-77

African ebony or Macassar ebony?


KKK.

[MushiSushi]

gaboon / african / nigerian . of that family

macasar is so much prettier .. so I would expect to pay more

[geo tichbourne]

Ebony or Macassar ebony are fairly easy to work on the scale of things but are messy because of the colour of the dust. They sand well with a coarse belt but will gum up belts if the belts are dull. Fine sanding or filing for detail work is best. They are somewhat porous and are affected by moisture changes slightly.

A similar wood African Blackwood looks similar but is a bear to work, it is really gummy and waterproof....it is used to make clarinets and bagpipes.
This material is definitely a candidate for fresh 50 or 36 grit belts and a VERY light touch to avoid heating up the belt or it will load. Saw blades load as will drill bits.

I have just finished gluing up a skean dubh handle and blade made from Blackwood. It polished up to a high gloss finish and details were easy to get nice and sharp with a file.

Both straight line handles and canted handle designs are considered proper based on historical precidents. Straight handles should be kept fairly thin to make wear comfortable against the leg.

[keith_beef]

Ebony or Macassar ebony are fairly easy to work on the scale of things but are messy because of the colour of the dust. They sand well with a coarse belt but will gum up belts if the belts are dull. Fine sanding or filing for detail work is best. They are somewhat porous and are affected by moisture changes slightly.

A similar wood African Blackwood looks similar but is a bear to work, it is really gummy and waterproof....it is used to make clarinets and bagpipes.
This material is definitely a candidate for fresh 50 or 36 grit belts and a VERY light touch to avoid heating up the belt or it will load. Saw blades load as will drill bits.

I have just finished gluing up a skean dubh handle and blade made from Blackwood. It polished up to a high gloss finish and details were easy to get nice and sharp with a file.

Both straight line handles and canted handle designs are considered proper based on historical precidents. Straight handles should be kept fairly thin to make wear comfortable against the leg.


Thanks, George.

The chunk I bought was described as "African ebony", and is plain black. The pictures I've seen of Macassar ebony seem to be more brown and streaky.

This wood doesn't feel oily to the touch.

Unfortunately, I've found that cracks have opened on the sawn surfaces :(

Maybe they will close up, either through absorbing moisture from the air, or when I oil the wood, or maybe I should gather the dust from the wood and mix it with a little wood hardener and inject it into the cracks after I've finished shaping.

I'm not necessarily after a high gloss finish, but nice sharp detail might be nice if I decide to do checking. But I have other ideas for ornementation.


KKK.

[Jason_01]

I think bowls used to be made of Lignum Vitae, though I'm sure they use a cheaper alternative these days. If your wood is splitting already Keith its probably not worth continuing with it, on the scale of things the wood is fairly cheap compared to the time you'll be spending on it, isnt it? Tough as it is, it might be best just to use it for practice.

African Blackwood is less inclined to chip than ebony, I think it's a bit tougher, looks very similar and its a little cheaper whn Ive bough it. Also difficult to work but worth the effort, I think I paid about £3 a block (enough for 4 big scales or more). Alan wood recomended African blackwood over ebony to me.

Jason

[Lord Farquhar]

BTW, are you selling any of that wood?

i can get you some if you want?

[ZDP-189]

Sure, especially if you can deliver it within the next 2 weeks so I can avoid shipping charges! I'd prefer blocks suitable for a shaft handle.

[Lord Farquhar]

Have you ever smelt it burning....... so nice

must burn expencive wood for no reason.............

[Tony]

I've made quite a few rings and other stuff out of Ebony.....on one occasion I burnt the inside of my nose with the smoke coming off it while I was cutting a block on a bench saw.....It was horrid!

Tough but brittle stuff, hard to work but very rewarding when finished......

Sharpen your tools often, they will blunt very quickly, when using hand tools take off small amounts as it’s nearly impossible to force a cut through the stuff, if you do there’s a good chance it will take a big lump out of the piece you’re working on. If you do break a piece it does glue quite well, I’ve had invisible joints when gluing pieces, so don’t just chuck it if it goes wrong….Use a good range of grits as when it’s finished you will be able to see any marks but you will need something aggressive to get the surface down.


Good luck, it’s lovely stuff :biggthump