hammer in critique please

[owen bush]

I would be interested as to what people thought about my hammer in and more what they thought was lacking or un safe .
apart from my numpty health and safty talk and the lack of angle grinders .any other usefull critisisms would be great .
dont feel scared of critisising as id like to make it all better and safer.
Ta Owen

[Colin KC]

A better use of all that space would have been super, mebbe move the fly press into the "big shed yard" & position most (if not all) the forges there.

Won't be up tomorrow btw, something's come up:( I'll speak to you later about mebbe another time;)

[JJH]

Hardly a critism, but would of liked the vices bolted down and more light in that other shed and feel guilty moaning about a great weekend

[owen bush]

both good points and things I had noticed and done nothing about .

[rik]

I didn't know anything about the demo you and Mick were doing until I saw Mick's finished product. I'd have loved to have seen that.

[Underhay]

I was helping (or maybe hindering) Mr yarrow with his billet, and the main problem was that he was sharing the forge with two others, and when his steel was at the right temperature for welding the anvil was busy.

The equipment was fine, but it would have been better for people to take turns during the welding stage. I noticed some people were working as teams, particularly on the flypress (great video of Mr Y doing this for BanjoBill :) ) which seemed to work very well. So maybe this could be encouraged in the future.

[Mr_Yarrow]

Something we talked about briefly was the lack of forges for the number of people on Saturday, however as you rightly said any more may have been a little dangerous.

Other things have already been mentioned by Col and John...however you did put on a VERY good show mate and it ran very smoothly with no real injuries that I noticed :)

Rgds

[Mr_Yarrow]

I was helping (or maybe hindering) Mr yarrow with his billet, and the main problem was that he was sharing the forge with two others, and when his steel was at the right temperature for welding the anvil was busy.

The equipment was fine, but it would have been better for people to take turns during the welding stage. I noticed some people were working as teams, particularly on the flypress (great video of Mr Y doing this for BanjoBill :) ) which seemed to work very well. So maybe this could be encouraged in the future.

Dont be daft Duncan, you were a great help and I appreciate all the advice I can get from the much more experienced people who were there :)

In regards to the stage thing, I was trying to do that with Rich Ball, Mik and a few others, as soon as Id done the weld I swapped one of those waiting into the forge spot. It means people are waiting around at first but also means that timings shouldnt conflict as much.

As for the flypress I have to say I was standing by it for about an hour in total during Saturday and I only helped once, everyone wanted to do it themselves...im not that confident and am rather clumsy so was happy to ask for help from anyone silly enought to be standing near it :D

Rgds

[rik]

Maybe splitting it over two weekends - have some "senior" people there for helping out with technique, but have the numbers halved by spreading out the weekend.

[PS_Bond]

Hmm... Mebbe a "What's Going On" chalkboard?

[jhobson]

More cheap beer. And more of your scrapheap chums.

[imagedude]

Not enough cups! You should get some 'Bushfire Forge' mugs made and sell them on the day. I heard people mumbling about the toilets but I'm made of sterner stuff.
Lighting levels in some of the sheds needs to be addressed too.
Damascus billets could have been welded up before the event.

[imagedude]

There were sufficient forges/anvils but there were problems with people trying to do their forging at the same time. Perhaps If the attendees were split into groups with some watching Mick's demo and some forging, then swapping over later in the day, there would have been less traffic at the forging stations at any one time.
It was overjoyed to see so many people take the opportunity to use a wide variety of tools that they otherwise may not have access too however many of these people were trying to run before they could walk. I noticed that people were making schoolboy errors such as leaving irons in the fire unattended, poor hammer technique, leaving burning forges unattended etc.
Perhaps those with little forging could be taken aside and taught the pros and cons of propane and coke forging, striking, basic HT, hammer techniques, etc. Obviously this would require a number of volunteers.

[richard ball]

I thought it was a great weekend exept for my blisters. The lighting in the shed with the vices might be a problim that needs shorting. Other then that I thought it was a great weekend not elf and safety issues that I am aware of.

[MushiSushi]

if Si (Mr Yarrow) didn't cut himself then the health and safety must have been of the very best .... :D

[jdm61]

You need to hold it about three weeks to a month earlier next year so that I can attend:D

[BanjoBill]

To give a sense of balance to this critique, I would like to comment on some of the things that I thought went well.

1. The general spirit of the event was very good - no bitching or moaning. If someone was using a particular bit of kit that someone else wanted to use, people just fell in line and waited.
2. The ability to 'have a go' without someone telling you that you shouldn't be doing that. Yes I know more mistakes are made that way, but its also a great learning curve, and for me, removed the 'fear of failure' factor.
3. The opportunity to use different forges and kit that I dont have at home. I moved from a gas forge to a coke forge, back to a gas forge. I used hammers to start, then onto the fly press. I used grinders and chop saws and did my first ever welding!
4. Availability of materials was excellent. I saw a few people welding up more than one billet - no one said 'Oi, you've had your bit'

If you are thinking of changing things, please dont loose the above along the way ;)

:D

[Colin KC]

Well said Frank.

[PS_Bond]

Also - the number of people willing to explain, and the number willing to listen was a joy.

Even if some were misguided enough to listen to my blethering :D

[owen bush]

To give a sense of balance to this critique, I would like to comment on some of the things that I thought went well.

1. The general spirit of the event was very good - no bitching or moaning. If someone was using a particular bit of kit that someone else wanted to use, people just fell in line and waited.
2. The ability to 'have a go' without someone telling you that you shouldn't be doing that. Yes I know more mistakes are made that way, but its also a great learning curve, and for me, removed the 'fear of failure' factor.
3. The opportunity to use different forges and kit that I dont have at home. I moved from a gas forge to a coke forge, back to a gas forge. I used hammers to start, then onto the fly press. I used grinders and chop saws and did my first ever welding!
4. Availability of materials was excellent. I saw a few people welding up more than one billet - no one said 'Oi, you've had your bit'

If you are thinking of changing things, please dont loose the above along the way ;)

:D
Dont worry frank ,
I'm not considering altering the feel of the thing,having been to a few baba events I recon that the atmosphere at these is so much better and less intimidating were on to a good thing there ,with colin jack and bob handing out info left right and center not to mention all the others passing there little along and me rushing around sorting I think its a winning combo .
I can however put in vices and lighting and have a written health and safty talk and think about the spacing of forges a little more.
i am also going to have to take a first aid course i guess .
ta for your coments

[rik]

I think Frank hit the nail on the head there - every BB event I've been to has had that same sort of spirit and that's what makes it a pleasure to turn up to.

[Stew]

It was overjoyed to see so many people take the opportunity to use a wide variety of tools that they otherwise may not have access too however many of these people were trying to run before they could walk. I noticed that people were making schoolboy errors such as leaving irons in the fire unattended, poor hammer technique, leaving burning forges unattended etc.
Perhaps those with little forging could be taken aside and taught the pros and cons of propane and coke forging, striking, basic HT, hammer techniques, etc. Obviously this would require a number of volunteers.

Although I didn't go to this hammer-in, I went to Owen's last one and Jack's one. What I know about forging is miniscule. I imagine that the same could be said for a lot of the attendees. Personally, I'm too polite to keep saying, "Bob, am I hitting this right?" "Colin, is this hot enough?" "Jack, where's my beer? What do you mean you've drunk it?" yada, yada so I've just got on with things, trying to learn from mistakes and watching the 'pros' where possible in the attempt to learn but asking the occasional question when really stuck.

To me, the point of attending is that you want to learn from others but by having the relaxed atmosphere where you can play with everything and 'run before you can walk' has probably encouraged lots of people to keep going as it's, well, fun. When people get a little more settled and comfortable they may wish to look at refining their technique but I think it's been a really good idea so far as to a way to introduce people into the craft.

Personally, I feel that if you (or someone) gave a demo for 1, 2, 3 (?) hours on the schoolboy errors you mentioned, it would be well attended - I'll certainly be there! People know that you get it hot & hit it but not necessarily how hot or how to hit it. :lol: The only problem I see with this is that it ties up the demonstrator for a length of time when they may wish to be working on their own project - after all, it's their weekend too.

I know the basic demo would probably be a bit boring for the 'old timers' ( ;) ) but could a more advanced demo be put on at the same time in a different area?



i am also going to have to take a first aid course i guess .


Do you? Could it be worth checking if any attendees are first aiders? I know this assumes they're coming but it could be one less worry.

I think a Health & Safety board is a great idea. Dos & Don'ts!

p.s. Owen - Verhoeven is in the mail....

[PS_Bond]

Do you? Could it be worth checking if any attendees are first aiders? I know this assumes they're coming but it could be one less worry.


Think there were a couple of us. Certainly there were quite a few kits around.

[Mr_Yarrow]

A sign for next to the peoples power hammer next time mate;

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2077/1734240379_f230e479e1.jpg?v=0

:D

Rgds

[thomas]

The only critique i have is that its way down south and i cant get there:D

[richard ball]

I manged to get there thomas I went from helensburgh to glasgow queen street then over to edinbugh down to kings X then to london bridge then finally to welling 5 trains in all around 7 hours. It cost me about 66 quid booked 2 weeks in advance and with a rail discount card.

[thomas]

I manged to get there thomas I went from helensburgh to glasgow queen street then over to edinbugh down to kings X then to london bridge then finally to welling 5 trains in all around 7 hours. It cost me about 66 quid booked 2 weeks in advance and with a rail discount card.

:O
I would get lost going into Glasgow Central:D

[rik]

:O
I would get lost going into Glasgow Central:D

So arrange to meet Richard outside it :)

[jhobson]

4. Availability of materials was excellent. I saw a few people welding up more than one billet - no one said 'Oi, you've had your bit'
:D

It was, wasn't it;)

[John N]

I might have to borrow the 'hammer warning sign! ' (if only I could work out how to do the 'quote' thingy )

Some things are so damn dangerous that they are suprisingly safe, the warning sign might be better showing a pair of tongs / long bar fired through someones soft bits - a much more common accident :C

always tongs to the side :!:

I will make a bit more of an effort to get the 'chinese takeaway' to your next 'forge in' (heck, I might even accompany it) - events seemed to conspire against it this time -

sorry guys.

[Stew]

A sign for next to the peoples power hammer next time mate;

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2077/1734240379_f230e479e1.jpg?v=0

:D

Rgds

Yep, and this one needs to go next to the forges!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/sjlight/fire_big.gif

:D

[Colin KC]

This one might be useful

http://www.guy-sports.com/fun_pictures/warning_fine.jpg

[meles meles]

Us finked the 'ammer-in went superbly. Lots of nice 'oomans, plenty of advice, sum of it seerius wen nesessary but always delivered & akksepted wiv gud grase, plenty of steel to play wiv and a great atmosfeer.

To mek fings a ikkle better:

*Mebbe the forjes kud be set up a'ead of the event next time and pozishuned round the anvils and press to give better akksess ?

*Possibubbly, 'is Owenship kud 'ave 'ad (Bloo Peeter style) a ikkle demo rite at the start wiv strips of metal alreddy kut, stikked, welded and reddy to forje so us kottoned on kwikker to wot us woz ment to do an' 'ow ?

'em's only ikkle kritisizms, an' ment to be positive. Us really enjoyed the event did us !

[patricweill]

Owen,
Thank you soooooo much !! and to everyone who was nice enough to give pointers to the clumsy begginner ( special mention to Bob and Colin) I am absolutely coming back next year if I am still accepted . I t was a great week end and my only critic is that it was way too short . See you all soon I hope

[Colin KC]

Patric, you're more than welcome, it was my pleasure:)

[owen bush]

thanks for you coments they are all noted and i'll strive to improve the whole thang for next time .
patric you will be most welcome next time .

[Mr_Yarrow]

Owen,

I was telling Mic Minj how well it went and one thing he pointed out was if we could have had say a dozen billets welded to sticks ready to go it might have made things a bit quicker to get started.

To build on that, possibly...then people could have been starting to set their welds whilst the rest were cutting steel, stacking and welding steel to sticks.

By the time a bunch of people had got the steel on a stick a few people would have set their forge welds and could let new peeps into forges.

That way less people would be standing around for as long with nothing to do.

Rdgs

P.S
I have no idea if the idea idea would actually work out as a beniffitt and realise that we couldnt have done it this time as we were waiting on Frank and the thin steel

[BanjoBill]

....we couldnt have done it this time as we were waiting on Frank and the thin steel

Actually not Si. That thin steel that I bought was nothing to do with the hammerin...it was something that I promised Jack & Col a few months ago.

The fact that there was a fair bit of it, and it could be used by everyone, was a bonus.

I half thought we were probably going to use the steel that I bought to the hammerin in March, plus some 15n20 from somewhere, but to be honest I didnt think that much about it - I just expected Owen to deliver (like he normally does :D )

[jhobson]

preparing loads of billets is a dull task

[owen bush]

In all honesty I spent a`bout 3 days sorting the place out and preparing billets was not on my list (other things that didnt happen were) .
my forge ins have become un like others I've been to in that so much is done .it is a complicated game really .
for the knife one me and col cut up a load of steel so there were bits ready made .
i really didnt want to baby everyone into having there steel cut for them as this is one of the boring but necisary tasks in making billets from thin stock ,part of the game as it were.

[Stew]

The problem with all the prep work is who gets lumbered with the task? It's going to be Owen (and perhaps a couple of volunteers.)

Not particularly fair.....

[jhobson]

The problem with all the prep work is who gets lumbered with the task? It's going to be Owen (and perhaps a couple of volunteers.)

Not particularly fair.....

In fact, only cutting the material is the dull and time-consumng bit.

choosing the mix, number of layers, what goes on outside, how to weld a handle, were all valuable parts of the day for many people and the choice allowed for a wide variety of billet sizes and patterns to be produced.

I am still haunted by splitting up the roll of 15n20 into 6' lengths in a group buy.
Once I'm in the shop, probably the single biggest resistance to me making more damascus is preparing the material for the billet.
Probably partly explains why cable and chain are popular with some people.

So . . .what we really need is someone to volunteer to cut up loads of material into suitable sizes for all future hammerins.

[meles meles]

Us kwite enjoyed kuttin' up the steel, stakkin' it, weldin' it...

[Longstrider]

Despite relying on Owen, Colin and a host of others for guidance and info as to what to do with my billet, I still feel that I made my own bit of damascus over the weekend at Owens. Had someone else prepared the billet and welded it up beforehand, I know that I would not have the same sense of achievement from the end product as I do now.
I can see that pre-prepared billets would save time, and to some degree the "standing around looking a little lost" that I managed more than my fair share of, but to know that I did the job myself from start to finish more than makes up for any lost time in my opinion.

[Underhay]

Once I'm in the shop, probably the single biggest resistance to me making more damascus is preparing the material for the billet.

Same for me Jack :(

I think it is unreasonable to expect billets to be welded before a hammerin, I certainly wouldn't relish making up 40!

The other thing to remember is that quite a few people who said they'd come didn't make it. The billets used on the day probably wouldn't be useful to Owen, so any extra would be hanging around for ages.

[owen bush]

Despite relying on Owen, Colin and a host of others for guidance and info as to what to do with my billet, I still feel that I made my own bit of damascus over the weekend at Owens. Had someone else prepared the billet and welded it up beforehand, I know that I would not have the same sense of achievement from the end product as I do now.
I can see that pre-prepared billets would save time, and to some degree the "standing around looking a little lost" that I managed more than my fair share of, but to know that I did the job myself from start to finish more than makes up for any lost time in my opinion.

If you can photo your blade that would be good as it was very ,verry nice.

[Longstrider]

Now that I've actually managed to get organised enough to have both my camera and my blade in the same place at the same time...
Here a few shots of my first ever piece of damascus, made at the damascus forge-in at Owens place last month.

http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/83/img0661mk8.th.jpg (http://img490.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0661mk8.jpg)

http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/8355/img0658fl6.th.jpg (http://img490.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0658fl6.jpg)

http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/6946/img0664eh4.th.jpg (http://img490.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0664eh4.jpg)

The tang needs a bit of thinning down and straightening, and the whole thing needs to be H/T'd and finished off but so far I'm pretty chuffed with it. :D
Once my workshop is up and running (and a host of other projects and tasks have been finished) I'll get it made up into a finished knife.

Edit : Should I have put the photo's somewhere else ? Member Projects perhaps ? If so, could some kind Mod move my post for me please ?

[Etalon]

I think im going to have to go to the next one! I talked myself out of it last time :) That blade looks great to me, Longstrider.