The Mokumé Experiment

[MushiSushi]

Ok ... the beginnings of my trepadatious journey into attempting Mokumé ... i welded up a few little bits of steel to make a clamp/mini forge for welding the gold and silver billet together ...... I will be cleaning up the silver and gold and clamping it inside this contraption, wrapping it with refractory wool and chicken wire, leaving a little window, ... and we shall see where we go from here :err:

[Roger Gregory]

That's cute ;)

You're a clever bugger Simon :) The idea of wrapping the clamp to make the forge instead of having a separate forge and no way of tightening the screws is the sign of an inventive (devious) mind.

So, the first billet of Mokume should be ready by tomorrow?

Roger

[PS_Bond]

*cough* well, Thursday mebbe... ;)

[MushiSushi]

me ??? ... devious??? :yikes: :)

[MushiSushi]

that wouldn't be thursday because i won't have any stainless foil til Wednesday evening would it? ;)

[PS_Bond]

At the rate I'm going, it'll be faster for me to bring the stuff by hand... :(

[MushiSushi]

wednesday will be fine :) ... let me know how much to bring on top of beer money ;)

[keith_beef]

Mushi, you could take the idea of the "one brick forge" a step further.

Look herh (http://www.mokume.com/book2nded1.html) .


KKK.

[MushiSushi]

cheers for that Keith, Peter already showed me that, but i've now got the Ian Ferguson book with a step by step ..... ... cleaning 13 x 20mmsq pieces properly took me nearly 2 hours last night :o

[PS_Bond]

Tedious, isn't it?

Once I've actually got some space for the bandsaw to run, I'll be able to make up some pressure plates. I don't like sawing 1/2" O1 by hand...

[MushiSushi]

Cobalt hacksaw blades, or better still, jigsaw blades....... my plates are in the picture, 6mm O1

[PS_Bond]

*13mm*
6 will probably warp in my forge.

[MushiSushi]

not at the temperature for fusing silver it won't ... unless you want a puddle you don't really want to go above 650 - 700C

[PS_Bond]

Copper & nickel silver :D

[MushiSushi]

bond temperature, mr bond, 700 C, according to the book i have in front of me ;)

[MushiSushi]

use argoshield during bonding to reduce risk of oxidisation causing delamination :) during the cooling phase

[MushiSushi]

high risk of porosity if over cooked

[MushiSushi]

shall i just bring the book on Wednesday?

[PS_Bond]

That's using that blasted 25 tonne press and muffle furnace, isn't it?

Has to get a bit higher if you're doing it by forge, believe me...

[PS_Bond]

shall i just bring the book on Wednesday?

Ferguson or Midgett?

I'd advise against bringing either - I drooled on the pictures of some of the mokume in Ferguson, and I haven't seen a copy of Midgett :)

[MushiSushi]

Ferguson ...... I'll bring a bib :p

[MushiSushi]

am awaiting the results of a sliver/brass combination as we speak .. one thing I noticed is that the top and bottom plates did a good job of radiating the heat .. but that 13mm plates might take a while to warm up to temp and actually insulate the metal rather than radiate heat through it ??? .. I flooded the cavity with argoshield as it cooled, as soon as the heat was off, to avoid oxidisation.

[MushiSushi]

Shocking!!! :yikes: :cool: :wink: ... pic to come :D

[MushiSushi]

Sorry for the crap picture :noggin: before Roger gets on my case ;) I'll need to update my camera to one that does better macro shots if I'm gonna do more of this stuff

but what appears to be a successful first test .. 13 alternate layers of brass and silver

[boaty]

You have a woman's hands, milord :rolleyes:

Err, I meant that's a good looking sandwich - very regular and square!

[MushiSushi]

I kind of thought the pic made my fingers look a bit fat .... :p

[Roger Gregory]

Now would I complain about a picture of something so pretty? And no I do not mean the fat fingers :D

It's not blurry, it's the beauty of the sandwich glowing ;)

Tell us more Simon, did the whole sandwich bond properly? Are you going to do weird things to it or use it as it is?

Roger

[MushiSushi]

absolutely no problems it seems with the entire sandwich ... to be honest this was a test because someone wisely recommended not using the gold straight away ... i actually have no plans for this billet other than to play and test ... i did, in my haste, forget to use a separator between the O1 plates, but it seemed that wasn't a problem and the plates weren't stuck ... probably because brass was the outside layer and the silver has the lower melt point ..and i also had wrapped the billet with scotch tape which probably created anough of a barrier .... generally it all looks good .. I'm gonna have another go with copper, silver and brass when the copper I have ordered comes through ... and if that goes well then it's the gold ....... the clamp worked really well and i got a full turn on the screw while it was all hot ....... the billet really looks 10 times better than that picture ... I need a camera with a decent macro

[MushiSushi]

I suppose if I do another billet the same they could be turned in to bolsters :)

[MushiSushi]

let's see if this is any better

[clcuckow]

I think is worse if anything ;)

[MushiSushi]

ok so i need a new camera :p

[MushiSushi]

OK thought i'd show you what I've got so far. This is the back and i am in the process of inlaying some onyx in the front .. but thought I'd share this rather peculiar effect, seems something has happened within the alloy of the sterling, not sure if it has alloyed partly with the brass except for a small amount, or whether the alloy of the sterling itself has segragated ... but it's quite a cool effect, it shows up dark on the scan but in daylight that thin thread is actually a lot brighter than the surrounding silver layer

[Dave Barker]

OK thought i'd show you what I've got so far. This is the back and i am in the process of inlaying some onyx in the front .. but thought I'd share this rather peculiar effect, seems something has happened within the alloy of the sterling, not sure if it has alloyed partly with the brass except for a small amount, or whether the alloy of the sterling itself has segragated ... but it's quite a cool effect, it shows up dark on the scan but in daylight that thin thread is actually a lot brighter than the surrounding silver layer


:wow: :wow: :wow:

Tell me o mushi one... is there nothing you can not do.... or does your mind really have no limits.

Looking forward to the finished thing. :wow:

[MushiSushi]

you flirt :p

[MushiSushi]

The greatest mistake you can make in life is to be continually fearing that you will make one.

Elbert Hubbard

We create our own limits with our fears ..... but you ought to know that by now :p

[MushiSushi]

so much learnt :)

over heated slightly and the brass and silver partially alloyed

tried to forge too hot ... and also didn't anneal enough .. especially when it came to raising a burr for the onyx inlay

but here it is

[ANDYLASER]

Excellent work Simon. :biggthump

[Roger Gregory]

:biggthump

You don't like to do things by halves do you Simon? :yikes:

I'm a lazy bugger so I would make a bezel instead of trying to raise a burr like that.

Do more, do more! :D

Roger

[clcuckow]

Simon your and all round clear s%#t :D

[Ross]

Mushi - can you make pure Green?

[MushiSushi]

It is definitely my intention to be doing a lot more, including using the 3 colour gold :yikes: .. I'll need a cast iron nappy for that one, coz I'm likely to S**t myself :D

right now working on a habaki though, plain copper, hammered finish for the forge finished tanto, then it's back to fiddling with the forge and fitting a blower

then we will see when I next feel like spending an entire afternoon sanding little squares of metal again :banghead:

Ross? .. Green? .. it's possible using copper and aluminium and patina so it goes green

[Ross]

Not a fan of Blackadder then? Pure Green!!

[Chux]

It is definitely my intention to be doing a lot more, including using the 3 colour gold :yikes: .. I'll need a cast iron nappy for that one, coz I'm likely to S**t myself :D





We create our own limits with our fears ..... but you ought to know that by now

Go on, I believe you'd make a good job of it :biggthump

[MushiSushi]

Not a fan of Blackadder then? Pure Green!!
Oh

Whhhhhhhoooooooooooooooschhhhhhh

crreeeeeeeak

I see

;)

[MushiSushi]

I'm a lazy bugger so I would make a bezel instead of trying to raise a burr like that.

I did actually consider a bezel . but i have been following the crowned prince of inlays, Jim Kelso (http://www.arscives.com/jkelso ),'s work closely for a long time .. and inlay seemed the natural choice .. didn't really take long .. just scribed around the onyx . a carbide burr in the dremel to within 1-2mm of the scribe line . then with an 1/16th nail punch i adapted in to a tiny chisel raised a burr, then with another adapted nail punch, flattened it again and filed down any raised bits

[ANDYLASER]

Ooooooh, Pink Floyd :biggthump :biggthump

[Roger Gregory]

Serious stuff Simon :biggthump

I need more lessons ;)

Roger

[Dave Barker]

you flirt :p
c'mon then mushi... gisakiss ......

oh and you are right i know....

[Kevin]

Fanbriliatistic.... :biggthump

[MushiSushi]

At it again

Brass, silver, copper combo ... successfully fused

[Kevin]

Great stuff.

Are you going to try twisting it and folding it etc to get different patterns :)

[MushiSushi]

going to try twisting half of it this time

[ZDP-189]

Mushi, that billet you showed me in the pub was an excellent first go.

Looks like you're getting into it seriously.

I like my mokume in 2 contrasting colours in relatively thick layers, with little or no pattern. If you can make some like that, I'll buy some!

[ANDYLASER]

Oooh its like a shiny liquorice allsort. Thats excellent work.

[MushiSushi]

right now I am working with 0.5mm metal .. how thick were you thinking? .. and when you say no pattern ..... do you mean as in straight layers as it starts off? ... contrast isn't a problem if you use a patina .. you can use brass and copper and patinate one ot the other black or to a similar effect

[MushiSushi]

mind you ........ need more practice as my attempts to twist half that billet have ended up in lots of thin and separate pieces of metal, I guess the bond wasn't as good as it first appeared :banghead:

[jbaron]

simon are you heating the billet when you are twisting it?

[MushiSushi]

Yes I am Jon ... on further inspection the layers seem to have oxidised so I have a feeling i might have skimped on the cleaning a bit :rolleyes: .. I also think I took it out too soon ... if it had bonded properly .. then it shouldn't split

[jbaron]

real shame that was a cool looking billet

[Kevin]

B :censored: r :(

[MushiSushi]

and words to that effect ....... don't worry ... i'm persistant :)

[keith_beef]

... contrast isn't a problem if you use a patina .. you can use brass and copper and patinate one ot the other black or to a similar effect

What about using shakudo and shibuichi?

Shakudo: 75% to 97% Cu, 3% to 25% Au
Shibuichi: 75% Cu, 25% Ag

You can buy rokusho powder to colour the shakudo dark reddish-brown to black, or make up your own compound.

Untracht gives five recipes for this stuff on page 671 of "Jewelry concepts and technology". Here's the first:

Copper Acetate 6g
Calcium Carbonate 2g
Sodium Hydroxide 2g

Dissolve in 150ml of distilled water in a pyrex beaker, and leave to stand for one week. Syphon off the clear liquid from the top, and add another litre of distilled water.

Before use, Untracht says you add 2g of copper sulphate. He also says that you can re-use this mixture: "it will last according to how often it is used, and whether is becomes contaminated".

KKK.

[Stuart Ackerman]

I think some mokume for the Summer kith is a goer!!!