Sods law

[reggad]

Howdo folks. Have just started a course in blacksmithing (at Myerscough). Due to major oversubscription we haven't had much forge time (there being a farrier course aswell competing for resources). Course and facilities seem great though. Due to above law, evening before I had my first ever go in a forge my Jujitsu practice went awry (over enthusiastic finger hold!), and I figured I'd stretched a tendon; next day I found it hard/painfull to grip the tongs effectively (but kept going and managed to draw the metal). Have since discovered that I'd actually acquired a spiral fracture in my left hand. Basically, I would appreciate some advice, I'm unlikely to be able to grip tongs in my left till this has healed-up, but don't want to fall behind in experience, is there anyway I can do some basic techniques with limited use of the left hand, even if just hammering practice perhaps with someone else drawing the steel, or would that be counterproductive to my learning. I would appreciate any feedback and suggestions of what I can be picking-up in the meantime, so I can go to my tutor next week with ideas and not seem quite so lame; this course means a lot to me. :)

[Kevin]

Wow..bad luck with the injury.

I guess you will have to discuss it with your instructor...

This is what I think.....when blacksmithing/bladesmithing..my right arm is the hammer hand...so becomes the machine.
My left are holding the stock/tongs is closely connected to my brain......My hammer almost always hit the same spot on the anvil,...my left hand moves the steel around where I want it. ..working in unison......being able to feel the steel and the strikes.
I dont think I would achieve much with someone else controlling the tongs.....though pre power hammers, apprentices used to swing the hammers whilst the master moved the steel around.

[PS_Bond]

That was more or less my feeling. You could use a clamp on the tongs, but you still need to flip the things around, so you'd need to support both steel & tongs. Possibly not a good idea.

About the only thing I couls think of was using a power hammer - hold the tongs in your right instead.

I think I saw more injuries on the mat with jitsu than with any other martial art I did...

[Kevin]

[QUOTE=PS_Bond]
.

About the only thing I couls think of was using a power hammer - hold the tongs in your right instead.

QUOTE]

Maybe..but the rare occassions I have used a power hammer..I have needed both hands to hold the steel as it can jump around.......besides...I would expect that if this is a basic course, it will be smaller, hands on projects.....pokers, tongs, twisted handles..that sort of thing...

You can learn a lot just by watching and get involved where you can.

[PS_Bond]

Maybe..but the rare occassions I have used a power hammer..I have needed both hands to hold the steel as it can jump around.......besides...I would expect that if this is a basic course, it will be smaller, hands on projects.....pokers, tongs, twisted handles..that sort of thing...


True - I found that I was doing most the work with my right hand, the left was just supporting. A power hammer is a bit overkill for the small stuff... :)



You can learn a lot just by watching and get involved where you can.

That's my excuse for buying the DVDs :D

[MushiSushi]

you don't need tongs nor to have to grip anything tightly ..... get a 2ft length inch square tube, preferably thick section ... drill and tap a hole through one side at the end and fit it with a machine screw (if it's thin section you might be better welding a nut on)... you can then clamp the tang with this and hammer away at the blade without having to use much grip ... it's easier to control without needing much grip

[Kevin]

you don't need tongs nor to have to grip anything tightly ..... get a 2ft length inch square tube, preferably thick section ... drill and tap a hole through one side at the end and fit it with a machine screw (if it's thin section you might be better welding a nut on)... you can then clamp the tang with this and hammer away at the blade without having to use much grip ... it's easier to control without needing much grip

I am sure where there is a will there is a way......I met a one armed blacksmith once ..but never got around to asking how he managed...the meeting was too brief.

[MushiSushi]

Pfttttttt! ... he said "will" :rotfl:

[Kevin]

Pfttttttt! ... he said "will" :rotfl:

will will will will will will will

[MushiSushi]

won't :p

[Greg Thomas]

Hi

if you forge a metal ring.... fit it on your tongs and slide it up the handle to bind both tong arms together..... this will aid in clamping the steel in the tong bit...... so all you'd have to do then is just hold the tongs... ...

gee...its so simple but hard to explain in words....

ok... i'll try again... basically when you want to hold a piece of steel in the tongs .... clamp on the steel to be forged.... then slide this ring (which is located at the plier parts of the tongs) up the towards the end...... naturally as the ring gets closer to the end of the handle it encounters resistance and gives the pliers clamping power... and now no need to have a killer grip on the tongs...

geez... I hope that helps...

ps... make sure you get a sun tan..... it aids in helping to produce strong bone


Greg

[MushiSushi]

Greg ..... the IS England ...... what's a sun tan?

[PS_Bond]

A paste made of instant coffee, IIRC?

[PS_Bond]

Tong clip from IFORGEIRON -

http://www.iforgeiron.com/images/Tools%20pix/Tongs/tongclip%201.jpg

Clips onto the reins to hold them closed. Much more elaborate than the ring... ;)

[Lord Farquhar]

just a thought could you not wrap some elastic sheeting around where you grip the tong so the pressure apllied to hold the jaws shut it not needed and just use your hand to hold the tongs rather than grip them.

i ripped all my ligaments in my right thumb boxing one day and i could not even hold a cup of tea for about 2 weeks

[one_rod]

Due (mainly) to my own stupidity I once managed to smash up my hand pretty badly. Even after they had sewn it back together it was very weak for a long time afterwards.

One trick I did figure out was to weld an old pair of Mole grips onto the end of a piece of 1" square tube and then make a thick handle on the other end out of many layers of gaffer tape.

This works on the same idea as tong rings or a clip but is much easier to make, especially if your hand is damaged and you can't hold the tongs to forge a ring......




one_rod.

[David Morgan]

Extended vise-grips sound like a good idea. Built-in mechanical advantage, you would only need to use your left hand to support the weight and to be on stand-by in case the grips pop open, rather than applying constant pressure.

[reggad]

Cheers folks, I'm in there tomorrow and various of your tips I can visualize working, so will suggest them. All advice is appreciated, as am new to this game. Cheers again for being nice guys and helping a beginner. :) :thanks:

[clcuckow]

Not done any forging, but what about a strip of bike tyre rubber wrap it around both handles and it should tighten up quite well and have a little natural give.

[reggad]

Cheers fer the idea clcuckow, but as tongs are being constantly shoved in and out of forge I figure any synthetic handle holder will react to the gradual rise in temperature, and in the case of anything elastic will split and potentially go boing into my or someone elses face. Fine idea tho, but don't want to break the health and safety edict of the forge I'm in.

[Greg Thomas]

haha.. you guys are great..

there has to be a little sunshine over there... ;)


by the way......I like that split ring idea..... especially with the different notches....

good post amigos

Greg

[clcuckow]

Cheers fer the idea clcuckow, but as tongs are being constantly shoved in and out of forge I figure any synthetic handle holder will react to the gradual rise in temperature, and in the case of anything elastic will split and potentially go boing into my or someone elses face. Fine idea tho, but don't want to break the health and safety edict of the forge I'm in.

I did say that I have zero experience ;) I did not think it would get to hot at the grip end.