So sick: Wood dust

[ZDP-189]

Although I did the heavy sanding on my last knife while wearing a N95 particulate respirator, and with vacuum filtration on the sander, some basic shaping was done without.

Since then, I have had allergy like symptoms, runny nose, teary eyes, blocked sinuses and a pain in my upper left chest when I take a deep breath.

Be careful guys.

:arg:
:crying:

[MotorbikeMan]

That's a timely warning, hope you get better soon ZDP

[jbaron]

diamond wood dan?

[Danzo]

Sorry to hear that Zed. I had a very similiar reaction when sanding our hardwood floors. It's not nice.

:(

Danzo

[Basemetal]

Commiserations Dan....Was the resin plywood to blame do you think? Is N95 a toxic or just a nuisance dust filter?

Are you getting better?
Suggest maybe taking a dose of expectorant type cough mixture to increase your bod's protective secretion levels in the lungs.
:bandit:

[ZDP-189]

Thanks guys. It's day 3 and I'm making slow but tangible progress.

I don't think it's the resin in the Dymondwood per se, but how should I know. All I know is I felt lousy. I normally don't get on well with tusk or horn, which make my skin itch a bit.

N95 rating is a NIOSH particulate rating designed to block airborne particles in industrial applications, rather than biological or chemical hazards. In other words, ideal for sanding wood. Next time, I just have to rememeber to wear the mask at all times.

[Tvividr]

Dan, I know how you feel, I really do. I use to have really big problems in my chest especially when working with yew, but also a few other woods. Get well soon and take care !

[stonehard]

what by chance was the wood?

[ODS]

Stonehard I think it was the Dymawoods which are laminated layers of woods.

Becareful of Cocobolo wood.. most everyone is allergic to this, but some are highly allergic to it. Mike Stewart has a employee that goes into shock and therefore Mike refuses to do any handles in this material.

[Tvividr]

A lot of beautiful woods used for knifehandles may look beautiful and safe as a material, but in the making of the knife it could turn out to be a potential health risk, and in extreme situations lead to shock reactions or even death. I’m not referring to accidents with grinders or anything related to the machinery used, but to the toxic effects of the wood itself.
I love wood, and I love working with it, but at a cost. Like Dan, I’ve had severe chest pains, problems with breathing, headache etc with a bit too far reaching consequences on my part, so I admit that there are some very disturbing properties of the materials that I love working with in my knives. Exposure to certain wood dust, like when sanding your chosen handle materials, can cause several ailments that you really don’t want, and therefore you should take great care and protect yourself accordingly. Please note that as individual people we all have different levels of toleration to the exposure of these woods.
Ailments common to over-exposure to toxic wood dust includes : bronchial asthma, constantly runny nose (rhinitis) and hypersensitivity pneumonia (alveolitis allergica), organic dust toxic syndrome (ODTS), bronchitis, allergic dermatitis and a few others. Cancer in the upper respiratory system can also develop after exposure to toxic wood dust.

A wood described as being a sensitiser will give you an allergic reaction to it, after you being exposed to the dust, sap etc. This reaction is usually irreversible. Personally I have big problems with yew, and will be very very ill for several days after sanding this wood. Besides yew, other examples of sensitising woods are beech, walnut, mahogany, redwood, willow, teak red cedar, and cocobolo.
People allergic to aspirin should be cautious of especially willow, as this wood contains salicin / salicyl acid (not sure of the exact English names) and can have a similar effect on you. Actually these medical properties and the extraction of them in the bush, are quite interesting, but would be more at home in another thread more related to bushcraft.
It is also important to note that dust from horn and bones can give bronchial asthma etc, in the same way as micro-organisms in bark and fungus from the wood. Spalted birch or maple and most likely also other spalted woods contain certain micro-organisms that are known to cause respiratory problems and even pneumonia.

With this in mind it is highly advisable to take the necessary precautions to protect yourself from possible ill effects from exposure to wood dust and resins. Useful guidelines are obvious like : work in a well-ventilated area, wash work clothes regularly (and yourself too :rolleyes: ), avoid particularly toxic woods that you have had severe reactions to before (I know that one is difficult. I still love to make longbows from yew :o ), and perhaps most important : always use appropriate and effective dust masks and an effective dust extraction system.

Some years back I did the basic 1 year course on a school for furniture and cabinetmakers. While there we got a chart which listed lots of woods and their toxic / allergic effects. I will list some of them here:

Ash (Fraximus sp)
Allergic reaction: decrease in lung function
In what form: dust

Beech (Fagus sylvatica)
Allergic reaction: dermatitis, eye irritation, decrease in lung function.
In what form: leaves, bark, dust.
Severity: medium risk
Incidence: common

Boxwood (buxus sempervirens)
Allergic reaction: sensitiser, dermatitis, irritant.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: medium
Incidence: common.

Bubinga (Guibourtia demeusel)
Allergic reaction: dermatitis, skin lesions possible

Cocobolo (Dalbergia retusa)
Allergic reaction: sensitiser, irritant.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: high.
Incidence: common.

Ebony (Ebenaceae sp.)
Allergic reaction: irritant, dermatitis, possibly a skin sensitiser.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: medium.
Incidence: common.

Iroko (Chlorophora excelsa)
Allergic reaction: asthma, dermatitis, nettle rash, hypersensitivity pneumonia.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: high.
Incidence: common

Laminated woods (plywood, Dymonwood etc)
Allergic reaction: reaction dependant on resins in the woods and methods of lamination (adhesives etc). Common reactions are dermatitis, mucous membrane and respiratory tract irritation, central nervous system and blood effects.
In what form: dust.
Severity: low to very high.
Incidence: common.

Makore (Sapotaceae sp.)
Allergic reaction: dermatitis, mucous membrane and respiratory tract irritation, central nervous system and blood effects.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: high

Maple (Aceraceae sp)
Allergic reaction: decrease in lung function, sensitiser.
In what form: dust.
Severity: high.
Incidence: common.

Olive Wood (Oleaceae sp.)
Allergic reaction: irritant, sensitiser.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: high.
Incidence: common.

Padauk (Legumimosae sp.)
Allergic reaction: sensitiser, itching, irritation, eye swelling, vomiting.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: low.
Incidence: rare.

Pau Ferro / Brazilwood (Caesalpinia echinata)
Allergic reaction: irritation, headache, nausea, stomach cramps, weakness, blisters.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: medium.

Purpleheart (Peltogyne pubescens)
Allergic reaction: irritant.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: medium.
Incidence: common

Redwood (Suquoia sempervirens)
Allergic reaction: sensitiser, dermatitis, asthma, nasal cancer, hypersensitivity pneumonia.
In what form: dust.
Severity: medium.
Incidence: rare.

Rosewoods (Dalbergia sp.)
Allergic reaction: irritation, sensitiser, dermatitis, respiratory problems.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: very high.
Incidence: common.

Satinwood (Chloroxylon sweietenia)
Allergic reaction: irritant.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: high.
Incidence: common.

Snakewood (Piratinera guianensis)
Allergic reaction: irritant.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: medium.
Incidence: rare.

Teak (Tectona grandis)
Allergic reaction: dermatitis, irritant, conjunctivitis, over sensitivity to light, swelling of the scrotum :yikes: , nausea, respiratory problems.
In what form: dust.
Severity: medium.
Incidence: common.

Walnut (Juglans sp.)
Allergic reaction: sensitiser, sneezing, rhinitis.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: medium.
Incidence: common.

Wenge (Millettia laurentii)
Allergic reaction: splinters go septic, dermatitis, giddiness, drowsiness, visual problems, stomach cramps, sensitiser.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: medium.
Incidence: common

Yew (Taxus baccata)
Allergic reaction: irritant, dermatitis, headache, blood pressure drop, cardiac effects.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: very high, direct toxin.
Incidence: common.

Zebrano (Microberlinia brazzavillensis)
Allergic reaction: sensitiser
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: medium.
Incidence: rare.

pweooow...that was a long post :noggin:

[MotorbikeMan]

Wow, that's a great, really informative post, especially for a newbie, thanks for that Tvividr, muchly appreciated :biggthump

Just an after thought, is it possible for the powers that be to make the above post a sticky?

[Kevin]

Thanks for that Gerd.
And Dan, sorry to hear about your illness and hope you have a full recovery soon.

[lemoneyewash]

Teak (Tectona grandis)
Allergic reaction: dermatitis, irritant, conjunctivitis, over sensitivity to light, swelling of the scrotum :yikes: , nausea, respiratory problems.
In what form: dust.
Severity: medium.
Incidence: common.

:yikes: :yikes: :yikes: I just burned me a whole patio of furniture.........

%&$@ that.

:bandit:

[keith_beef]

This thread might be of some interest:

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1043&highlight=Botanical+Dermatology+Database


KKK.

[ANDYLASER]

Just an after thought, is it possible for the powers that be to make the above post a sticky?

Good point. Maybe it should be added to the worhshop hazzards section.

[PS_Bond]

Yeah, but if I try, you can practically guarantee it'll disappear into the ether :D

[ANDYLASER]

You should put the ether away. It'll make you all sleepy.

[Graham]

Stonehard I think it was the Dymawoods which are laminated layers of woods.

Becareful of Cocobolo wood.. most everyone is allergic to this, but some are highly allergic to it. Mike Stewart has a employee that goes into shock and therefore Mike refuses to do any handles in this material.

Agree totaly about Cocobolo it was my favourite wood but was aware of the potential of the very moist dust it produces to cause allergies so wore latex cloves, gogles and a mask when working it. However I woke the next morning hardly able to see with both eye lids swollen like a bad boxers and a severe rash like sunburn on the back of my neck, a trip to the Doc. and a course of tablets ensured it did not get any worse but was still unwell for many days so I sympathise with ZDP and sadly will not use Cocobolo again beware of the exotic hardwoods the are beautiful but also hazzardous in many cases.

Graham.

[Bogflogger]

I think that this needs a bump (and to be sticky?)

[Stuart Ackerman]

I am building a strong fan to remove most of the dust at the grinding point...
BUT I will still use a mask...

[Kane]

Definate sticky please - this is especially useful to the beginners amongst us.

Kane

[Colin KC]

Your wish is my command (but not alla time, so don't push your luck:mad:;):P)

[Kisu]

And i thought I was coming down with flu.... i spent a good part of the weekend sawing and planing blocks of olive and rosewood. I was wearing a mask but have been sneezing and coughing ever since. Luckily I wasn't working with teak and had taken the precautionary measure of covering my scrotum beforehand:D

Thanks for the very useful info.

[soup_monger]

I was reading up on this quite recently after working with Leadwood and I became concerned when my hands came out in a rash. I haven't found Leadwood listed anywhere though.
I found this chart a while back so it might be helpful.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d104/fergus2468/chart1.gif

INDEX OF MEANINGS
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d104/fergus2468/chartindex1.gif

[ZDP-189]

When I saw this thread ressurrected, I thought "Oh oh, I wonder who has inhaled wood dust now..."

Kisu, I hope you are feeling better soon.

[handwerker]

I have in the last days and cant stop coughing:yuck:

[ZDP-189]

Were you wearing a respirator?

[Kisu]

When I saw this thread ressurrected, I thought "Oh oh, I wonder who has inhaled wood dust now..."

Kisu, I hope you are feeling better soon.

Much better thanks - almost ready to get back to planing and sanding again:D

I really was not aware of the potential risks of working with some woods and have now printed the charts in this thread to stick on the workshop wall.

[handwerker]

Were you wearing a respirator?
I am going to buy a good one today. Also I will try to replace the vacc for my selfmade suctionunit with a stronger industrial one.

[Stuart Ackerman]

Combretum Zeyheri..the Red Bush Willow tree and the Combretum imberbe, Leadwood tree are related...
The Red Bush Willow or Rooiboswikkelhout's dust, is a severe irritant and makes me sneeze within a few seconds of grinding it, and the dust hangs around waiting to be stirred up again, making all who enter my workshop sneeze again, even if much later...
I have a quantity of Leadwood, and when I use it, I have no problems, except a staining of my hands, which washes off after a few days...
A mask for ANY type of grinding is a neccesity...

[handwerker]

Still coughing. Its so bad, I cant even enter the workroom.
Oner Hobby less.
Live sucks and then you die.

[Tiffers]

If you havent already been, it might be worth a trip to the Doctors......

Tiffers

[ngraudal]

To bad i didn´t see this thread ages ago, i have been working with bubinga an buffalo without a respirator months ago, and it´s first now i can sneeze without starting a nosebleed, my air capacity has also had a major setback, and even now when im wearing a dustfilter i start to cough. So next time i´m going near a shop selling respiratory equipment i´ll buy myself a proper NBC mask or something like that.

[ggfh666]

I'm quite dumb as to safety precautions.
But I wear a quality dust mask when beltgrinding wood or horn. Whatever the type.
I used not to but everytime I got sick (nose clogged up, eyes dry, earaches the lot)

[keith_beef]

I'm quite dumb as to safety precautions.
But I wear a quality dust mask when beltgrinding wood or horn. Whatever the type.
I used not to but everytime I got sick (nose clogged up, eyes dry, earaches the lot)

I've taken to only using saw, drill, plane and chisels in the basement workshop.

When sanding, I go to the other work area, where I benefit from something like a thousand cubic feet per second of airflow. I'd still wear a dust mask for the nasty stuff, though.


K.

[Inspector71]

Planning on using a bit of Amaranth (Purpleheart) for something. I wanted to wet it to have a look at the grain a bit better. In the absence of a tap (and not having a very bright day) I just licked it :O :rolleyes: :yuck:

Will be seriously masked up when I get stuck into that stuff...

[BorderReiver]

Planning on using a bit of Amaranth (Purpleheart) for something. I wanted to wet it to have a look at the grain a bit better. In the absence of a tap (and not having a very bright day) I just licked it :O :rolleyes: :yuck:

Will be seriously masked up when I get stuck into that stuff...

What about food prep etc?

Will the treatment seal in the taste?

[Inspector71]

What about food prep etc?

Will the treatment seal in the taste?

I sincerely hope so...

Will Danish oil or maybe even wax this one I think :)

[4arm]

Your reaction maybe a blessing in disguise ....If you had not had such a reaction but damage would still be done and you would probably have done the same procedure again and again causing more serious damage.

Hope you make a speedy recovery

4arm

[J3st3r]

Cracking thread people, A newbie like me needs all the help to stay safe in the workshop, i have just got my self a dust mask ( Organic Vapour/Particulate Respirator 3M Respirator 4251 ) and was wondering if this would keep the nasties out :S You can find it here http://www.greenham.com/c/pl/71636/3M-4251-Organic-Vapour-Particulate-Respirator
Any information would be a massive help
Cheers and i hope everyone is well who has been ill.

J3st3r :)

[Wayne D]

that's the same as the one I use for when I'm working with Yew .

you'll be suprised at the difference it makes, no more blowing your nose and getting black or bizare coloured snot! and no more waking up with headaches in the morning

[J3st3r]

nice one :) thanks
at least i know now when i get my workshop sorted i can play about without an added worry.

J3st3r

[david kidd]

Although I did the heavy sanding on my last knife while wearing a N95 particulate respirator, and with vacuum filtration on the sander, some basic shaping was done without.

Since then, I have had allergy like symptoms, runny nose, teary eyes, blocked sinuses and a pain in my upper left chest when I take a deep breath.

Be careful guys.

:arg:
:crying: be carefull when sanding some exotic hardwoods i had a really bad rash over my arms and face took two weeks before it started to go.

[dougster]

I did a knife with Buffalo horn last year and felt sick for three days. I've just finishd a yew one and have chest discomfort (it's not pain) like when I had a chest infection.

I should spend more time reading here.:D

My workshop is the back garden when it isn't raining, so that isn't so bad.

Hope everyone else feels better soon.

[skippydm]

bloody hell i didn't know wood was so dangerous, i think i am going to need to get a mask... luckily i haven't started on the scales yet as they are cocobolo, and i got some teak coming for my next project.

great info guys

[thomas]

Cocobolo is very bad if you breathe in the dust.

[Winter]

Just read this thread for the first time. Wish I'd of read it a few years ago.

I normally just filter the dust through my ciggy.

(I'm not the sharpest spoon in the drawer)

[narsil]

My advice is, if you're working with any process which creates dust you should wear a mask. All fine dusts are potentially dangerous and a lot of hardwoods are toxic, even those which aren't actually toxic can cause allergic reactions and sensitization.

[thomas]

It hits some people harder than others. And some woods and other materials are more dangerous than others.
If you buy a material for a handle, try and find out exactly what your working with. And remember it:)
I use one of the cheap dust masks with some kitchen paper stuffed inside:D So im not exactly doin it by the book either.

[seaco]

Would anyone object if I copied the wood dangers post to my woodworking forum it's a real eye opener?

[lilzee]

well i sure am lucky.... :O

i just made a knife out of yew, and while sanding it, when the paper got clogged, i'd lick off the dust...

Yew (Taxus baccata)
Allergic reaction: irritant, dermatitis, headache, blood pressure drop, cardiac effects.
In what form: dust, wood.
Severity: very high, direct toxin.
Incidence: common.

needless to say i wont be doing that anymore.... :yikes:

[TOM STRATTON]

Thanks for the info.I probably had some slight reactions to dust and thought it was from cutting the grass.Hope you get along ok.I keep my 2 X 72 belt sander outside as it produces too much dust for the shop filter to handle.

[MushiSushi]

well i sure am lucky.... :O

i just made a knife out of yew, and while sanding it, when the paper got clogged, i'd lick off the dust...


Try ice cream next time you feel like licking something, Jared

[parbajtor]

As an ex-HSE inspector I used to give advice on toxic woods to all the woodwork shops (joineries etc.) in NW London that I inspected. One of the most comprehensive charts i came across was this one
http://www.mnwoodturners.com/New_Member_Docs/Toxic_Woods_Chart.html
BTW. You don't really want to know what happens with naso-pharyngeal cancer. It can start with an ever present tickly nose and six months later you've lost half your face! No joke!!! Any mask rated at P2 is suitable for keeping out the dust, But the most important part is the fit to your face. If you can block up the filter and suck out the air it should stick to your face for at least a minute! I don't rate the disposables at all. Theres no point in having a filter that filters down to 10 microns when you can fit a lollystick through the gap! Also any beardy bits or moustaches that sit outside the mask are basically the level of filtration you are getting from it, as they break the seal. Sorry if I'm lecturing a bit, but when you've met someone who can't work with wood or even walk past a workshop without a massive asthma attack you realise just how serious this can become! The dust you cough and spit up today was probably inhaled 10 years ago! And once you're sensitised you'll never stop being allergic.

[wanderingblade]

One of the most comprehensive charts i came across was this one
http://www.mnwoodturners.com/New_Member_Docs/Toxic_Woods_Chart.html


Excellent chart - thanks for posting!
Certainly deserving of some rep.

[Mad1]

Wear a mask!!! :lol:

Safety first, seriously. The wood will hurt you a lot more than the mask will.

[lilzee]

definitely not working with teak anytime soon..... :yikes:

and simon, don't worry i wont be licking any more yew....

[ANDYLASER]

I normally just filter the dust through my ciggy.


Probably not recommended, but I like your style. :D :D

[ANDYLASER]

Would anyone object if I copied the wood dangers post to my woodworking forum it's a real eye opener?

I would sugest you send a PM to Martyn and ask his permission first.

[johnt1102]

I endorse the need for good protection & it is not just inhalation.Some exotic woods can cause skin reactions.Years age when i was in the trade there was a furniture factory in Portsmouth that introduced a new range with a tropical veneer that was new to them & the staff all went down with An unusual skin disease.Gloves & long sleeved shirts as well if you have any doubts what you are sanding?

[MushiSushi]

funnily enough none of the HSE recommendations mention anything about licking the dust

[marcus2]

Are there any dangers with Desert Ironwood,I could'nt see any mention of it.

[ngraudal]

Are there any dangers with Desert Ironwood,I could'nt see any mention of it.

I can't remember who, but a member on here has an epiniphrine syringe or something like that in his workshop because he's allergic to Desert Ironwood. In general wod dust is bad, all wood dusts are suposed to increase the risk of lung cancer (i think).

I think you should be careful with the DE, I haven't used it myself, because its damn hard, and probably as poisonous as an aaa-grade piece of burl is beautiful.

Niels

[narsil]

Are there any dangers with Desert Ironwood,I could'nt see any mention of it.

All hardwoods should be treated as potentially dangerous, you should use decent respiratory protection at the least. Many of the adverse reactions are allergic reactions specific to the individual and some can have a cumulative effect.

If in doubt its best to err on the side of caution and avoid coming into contact with the dust as much as possible and keep a lookout for any early signs of a reaction.

[marcus2]

Thanks guys :)

[GILL]

i made my first couple of bows from yew a couple of weeks back,on the first night i was shaping and fine sanding .i got washed and ready for work in the evening, and suddenly felt quite ill .i had pain in my abdomen and felt i had the flu coming on ,it was quite a strange feeling , which i was not familiar with. i managed to finish my shift (just) ,went home to bed and felt not bad in the morning apart from itchy eyes.i am almost sure it was the wood.my hands were covered in fine dust and they were quite itchy as well for a few days.so i would say wear a mask and gloves next time, if it can irritate the skin on your hands,then what will it do to your lungs ,nose and eyes. :surrender:

[ZDP-189]

i made my first couple of bows from yew a couple of weeks back,on the first night i was shaping and fine sanding .i got washed and ready for work in the evening, and suddenly felt quite ill .i had pain in my abdomen and felt i had the flu coming on ,it was quite a strange feeling , which i was not familiar with. i managed to finish my shift (just) ,went home to bed and felt not bad in the morning apart from itchy eyes.i am almost sure it was the wood.my hands were covered in fine dust and they were quite itchy as well for a few days.so i would say wear a mask and gloves next time, if it can irritate the skin on your hands,then what will it do to your lungs ,nose and eyes. :surrender:

You have inhaled a finely powdered alkaloid in wood dust which has mucoadhesive properties. i.e. in non technical terms, it's a poison, it's probably gotten into the very depths of your lungs in big quantities and it'll stick there for a long time till the poisons can do their damage. Therefore, get yourself to a doctor.

[stonehard]

You have inhaled a finely powdered alkaloid in wood dust which has mucoadhesive properties. i.e. in non technical terms, it's a poison, it's probably gotten into the very depths of your lungs in big quantities and it'll stick there for a long time till the poisons can do their damage. Therefore, get yourself to a doctor.

totally agree all parts of the yew tree are to be respected. get any of it into your body and you have problems ( have eaten the berries without the pip to no effect but wouldnt recommend it)

[benp1]

Glad I've seen this. I haven't started making stuff but would like to soon. What sort of mask should be used? (as practical an option as possible, Darth Vader isn't a good look!)

[benp1]

edit - double post

[ZDP-189]

Ideally, a positive pressure PAPR mask. Failing that, a N95 with a good seal, sealing eye protection, but this set up's for only light, hobbyist exposures and if you don't have a known sensitivity. If you're going to do it in a big way, get properly protected.

[benp1]

great, thanks Dan. I'll look into getting one of those when I started getting kitted up

[nuphoria]

Good thread - glad you guys have this info now.

I didn't read all the pages I confess but just wanted to mention (in case it hasn't already been) that some wood dust can be carcinogenic so you should always protect your lungs to be on the safe side.

[Kane]

Good idea to protect yourself from any dust - carcinogens or poisons only make a bad thing worse.

[ghdeel]

This is a good thread that goes back a few years, although is just as important today. I have worked with a wide variety of woods for many years as a cabinet maker and never had an adverse reaction until I was in my early thirty's. I then started to have asthma and allergies, now I am sensitized to several species of wood and very sensitive to plywood's because of the resins. This is for the TOUGH GUY'S out there, you may not be affected by it now, but once you are you will be for the rest of your days.

Be SAFE, not SORRY!

Best Wishes,
Gary

[Thijzzz]

Gents,

I work with a Dutch professional tool wholesaler, and I am responsible for product info. In that respect I have recently dug in the equipment for personal protection, especially dust masks.

For what it's worth, I have translated my DUTCH info. The equipment we sell comes from North Safety (www.northsafety.com), and I think they sell in the UK as well. I only have info on disposable dust masks. But I know that companies like North have information on a lot more materials and what kind of protection/equipment you need. So you could contact a supplier to get more info.

What disposable dust masks are there, and against what should you use them?

P1 (on the mask it says: FFP1): for harmless, non-binding dust
In other words: simple jobs around the house, sweeping the garden, etc.

P2 (on the mask it says: FFP2): for harmful dust
You need this as a MINIMAL protection when you drill, sand, grind, cut, saw etc. the following materials:

All ferro-metals, such as carbon steel, etc.
All polyester and aramide fibers, such as micarta, all plastics, but also MDF, etc.
All soft woods, such as pine, spruce, etc.
Dust from wheat, flour, crops, etc.
Dust from cement, concrete, etc.
And more.

P3 (on the mask it says: FFP3): for toxic dust
For enzymes, spores, bacteria, viruses.
Quartz, silcum/silicate materials (for instance sand lime bricks)
All hardwoods: oak, beech, but also tropical species such as meranti, bankirai, and the well known species like cocobolo etc etc.
All non-ferro metals like stainless steel, aluminium, copper, brass (tubing!), lead, gold, silver, etc.
Fumes from welding
And more.

Note 1: P2 also protects against everything P1 protects again.
P32 also protects against everything P2 protects again.
Be safe, get P3. About a fiver here in Holland.

Note 2: For resins, impregnation fluids, acids (etching) etc. you need additional protection! The fumes are not dust, so they will not be stopped by these masks. For this you need face masks / half face masks with a specific filter for the materials/fluids you use. These are color- and letter coded. If anyone wants, I have a complete list of chemicals that these filters will protectagainst. Send PM and I'll email it.

More info here: http://www.draeger.es/ST/internet/pdf/AP/en/products/9045782_Guide_for_selection_and_use.pdf

This info is given on a personal base, no rights can be derived from it. But if you have questions, I’d be grateful to try and answer them.

Regards and stay well,

Thijs

[recurve]

As a relative newcomer i hadnt really thought too much about wood dust and its effects. However i have noticed that i get a bit of a fever and chest pains from working with MDF( i know this isnt real wood)
Now ive started to look at knife making im gathering all sorts of woods, oak, hickory, iroko, rosewood etc. I had a few practice sanding on different ones and after catching your post have started to use a better quality particulate filter mask. Im now thinking(even though im just a hobbyist) of ways i can improve ventilation and dust extraction.

Ive had really bad chest pains and spots on the skin etc in the past when working some woods, a timely reminder to think around the making not just on the end result itself.

Regards Recurve

[Joshua Miller]

INTERESTING..... i am just now getting over the same symptoms.... i didnt even think of this..... quess i should know better next time then eh? get better...

[Basemetal]

Re working with MDF
woodn16.pdf (application/pdf Object) (http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/woodnig/woodn16.pdf)

[CrewCab]

The dust from MDF has been likened to that of asbestos, it is Carcinogenic, so very dangerous .............. please always use a good quality mask and if possible some extraction / work outside with any man made wood ............. I did think MDF was banned in the US but I may be wrong on that one .......... be careful out there guys
CC

PS: ........... from memory ........ softwoods aren't too bad but any hardwood is similar to MDF due to the fine particles released when sanding / cutting so take care with those too.

[MushiSushi]

The dust from MDF has been likened to that of asbestos, it is Carcinogenic, so very dangerous .............. please always use a good quality mask and if possible some extraction / work outside with any man made wood ............. I did think MDF was banned in the US but I may be wrong on that one .......... be careful out there guys
CC

PS: ........... from memory ........ softwoods aren't too bad but any hardwood is similar to MDF due to the fine particles released when sanding / cutting so take care with those too.

The bit about MDF dust has been going round for nearly 20 years, accompanied by stories that it has been banned in some countries (most notably USA) and is quite simply wrong on all counts. If you look on the HSE website it is rated no more dangerous than the dust from pine (softwood)

[woodcutter]

The bit about MDF dust has been going round for nearly 20 years, accompanied by stories that it has been banned in some countries (most notably USA) and is quite simply wrong on all counts. If you look on the HSE website it is rated no more dangerous than the dust from pine (softwood)

Mdf is indeed classified a softwood by Health and Safety and therefore not Carcinogenic but Formaldehyde resins are recognised as probable/possible causes of cancer and more commonly asthma by the same body and as Mdf is held together with formaldehydes I think in view of a potential misleading classification everyone should be cautious with this stuff. I have used it a lot over the years that on the odd occaision I'm not masked up I cough my lungs out.
I've also been told (but dont know for certain) that like Oak (and lots of hardwoods) dust the particles are spikey like snowflakes under a microscope thus spearing the walls of the lungs making it a lot more difficult to get rid of.
I personally prefer to hand carve as much of a knife handle as is possible for those reasons it takes longer than wizzing it round the grinder but what the hey.

However there is a really useful dust extraction stand available that is free-standing multi positionable usually used by woodturners that would be ideal for handle shaping on a grinder, at £29.95 it shouldnt break the bank.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=819060&name=dust+extraction&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=44

Still wear masks though people;)

[MushiSushi]

Mdf is indeed classified a softwood by Health and Safety and therefore not Carcinogenic but Formaldehyde resins are recognised as probable/possible causes of cancer and more commonly asthma by the same body and as Mdf is held together with formaldehydes I think in view of a potential misleading classification everyone should be cautious with this stuff.

Formaldehydes do not hold MDF together, it has a resin binder. There are trace Formaldehydes in MDF, but not enough to warrant a significant health risk from the Formaldehyde. The risk in MDF is from the breathing in the dust itself and efforts should be made to reduce or eradicate possible inhalation of all wood dusts. MDF dust is finer than softwood dust, and that is the only significant factor that could contribute towards health risks of MDF over softwood.

The bit about formaldehyde being a contributing factor to health risks of MDF is also a fallacy.

Found the relevant HSE article: http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/woodnig/woodn16.pdf

[woodcutter]

Formaldehydes do not hold MDF together, it has a resin binder. There are trace Formaldehydes in MDF, but not enough to warrant a significant health risk from the Formaldehyde. The risk in MDF is from the breathing in the dust itself and efforts should be made to reduce or eradicate possible inhalation of all wood dusts. MDF dust is finer than softwood dust, and that is the only significant factor that could contribute towards health risks of MDF over softwood.

The bit about formaldehyde being a contributing factor to health risks of MDF is also a fallacy.

Found the relevant HSE article: http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/woodnig/woodn16.pdf

Yes indeed, the binder being urea-formaldehyde resin, according to Meddite one of the largest manufacturers of the stuff and good old Wikepedia that is. Heres their quote

Formaldehyde resins are commonly used to bind MDF together, and testing has consistently revealed that MDF products emit urea formaldehyde and other volatile organic compounds that pose health risks at sufficient concentrations, for at least several months after manufacture.[4][5][6][7][8] Urea formaldehyde is always being slowly released from the surface of MDF. When painting it is good idea to coat the whole of the product in order to seal in the urea formaldehyde. Wax and oil finishes may be used as finishes but they are less effective at sealing in the urea formaldehyde.[9]

Whether these chronic emissions of formaldehyde reach harmful levels in real-world environments is not yet fully determined. The primary concern is for the industries using formaldehyde. As far back as 1987 the U.S. EPA classified it as a "probable human carcinogen" and after more studies the WHO International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), in 1995, also classified it as a "probable human carcinogen". Further information and evaluation of all known data led the IARC to reclassify formaldehyde as a "known human carcinogen"[10] associated with nasal sinus cancer and nasopharyngeal cancer, and possibly with leukemia in June 2004.[11]

Anyway my point in replying to the earlier post was not to contest your post but to help others, whether a binder is a glue holding something together or which resin/ formaldehyde resin binder in whatever amount is or is not present and as to whether the govornments scientificly researched advice in at least 5 Western nations are actually wrong and wrong to suggest 'Probable links to nasal cancer' etc etc, I just wanted after 24 years as a formally and bench trained cabinetmaker dealing with dust management everyday and having lost a respected and revered tutor in the craft directly as a result of dust accumlations in his lungs causing problems (no not mdf specifically) to add to other peoples advice here about how MDF and all hardwoods and indeed soft woods to a lesser degree produce dusts that if present or accumulating gradually in the airways of the body in given quantities will cause or contribute to bad health problems in time to come. To simply think 'its only the odd knife' a few times a year could land you in schtuck in time to come. Also it was to alert knife makers hobbyist or pro that there is a nifty gadget to assist greatly in dust management so that everyone can enjoy this fascinating pastime safley.

:surrender::surrender::surrender:

[MushiSushi]

*Puffs out chest*

ahh forget it .... :P



Whether these chronic emissions of formaldehyde ....

Is that really what it says on Wiki? ".. chronic emissions ..." ????

[Wayne D]

Aldi regularly have twin cartridge respirators in stock which are listed for fine particle , they usualy are £14.95 .

on the subject of dust extraction I use an old Dyson vacuum I 'found' on freecycle with the pipe clamped in place, this has the benefits that I can easily empty it at the end of each session.

[Basemetal]

Is that really what it says on Wiki? ".. chronic emissions ..." ????

Makes sense - as in 'emissions over time' from the MDF in service.
cf. chronic, synchronic, diachronic etc

[Catsnake]

Now ive started to look at knife making im gathering all sorts of woods, oak, hickory, iroko, rosewood etc...

...Ive had really bad chest pains and spots on the skin etc in the past when working some woods, a timely reminder to think around the making not just on the end result itself.

Regards Recurve

Watch out for this one buddy. I got a load of Iroko this week and haven't had any problems but a friend of mine had exactly the same symptoms as you back in the 70's and that was confirmed as being due to Iroko dust.

It's also a Calcinogen so is very bad for cattle and other animals.
Interesting stuff though.

[MushiSushi]

Interesting stuff though.
My kitchen work tops are made from it!!

[Nice65]

I used to work in a small joinery. In those days H&S was fairly non-existent, we had extractors but they weren't highly effective. Iroko dust was the worst, causing coughing and chest pain. Definitely wear a decent particle mask for Iroko, and all the other stuff too. Who know what breathing micarta dust etc may do to you in years to come.

[Catsnake]

My kitchen work tops are made from it!!

All the stuff I've got is from a refurb at an old grammar school, seems it was quite common as a teak substitute back in the day...
Think it was even called 'African Teak' or sumat, although I may have made that up!

[wil1hit]

another wood dust to be careful of is yew ,verry bad makes eyes sting and everything. farmers try to clear yew where they can because of livestock eating it, but all yew is protected if its trunk is thicker than 4inch thick.it can carry up to a 20,000 pound fine if you decide to cut your self as a friend found out the hard way .local council turned up just as he was cutting down the last of 5 trees 43 ,000 pound later hes out of a job ,but on an up side ive got some lovley knife scales!lol

[Martin.Edwards]

Whatever you do, never empty a bag of wood/sanding dust on to a bombfire. i did this only once and would never do this again!

[Hossballs]

You should give 'African Sneeze Wood' a try - I kid you not

[odin]

could someone recommend me a respirator as im going to be sanding my floor back shortly and have an history of asthma so im guessing i need something that will keep everything out if such a thing exists, but i would rather it didnt cost the earth

[parbajtor]

could someone recommend me a respirator as im going to be sanding my floor back shortly and have an history of asthma so im guessing i need something that will keep everything out if such a thing exists, but i would rather it didnt cost the earth

It should be fitted with at least a P2 filter and needs to fit properly on your face. If you don't want to bother with a face fit test, then a powered respirator works well and has the advantage of keeping you cool in summer.

[MushiSushi]

could someone recommend me a respirator as im going to be sanding my floor back shortly and have an history of asthma so im guessing i need something that will keep everything out if such a thing exists, but i would rather it didnt cost the earth

What wood?

something like this should do? http://www.screwfix.com/p/3m-maintenance-free-respirator/13038

[Rab]

I've got an air fed mask - supposed to be connected to a compressor and comes with a carbon filter.
However, I'm a bit wary of using it - how would you know if the filter's still working ok and you're not breathing oil vapours from the compressor ?
any advice ?

[odin]

What wood?

something like this should do? http://www.screwfix.com/p/3m-maintenance-free-respirator/13038

american maple

[parbajtor]

I've got an air fed mask - supposed to be connected to a compressor and comes with a carbon filter.
However, I'm a bit wary of using it - how would you know if the filter's still working ok and you're not breathing oil vapours from the compressor ?
any advice ?

You should be able to taste it if there were oil vapours in the line, but there are other issues as well. Just-compressed air is too hot to breathe direct from the pump, it has a high moisture content and can contain too much CO2 and CO as well as other contaminants depending on where you're drawing your air from. Air fed masks fed by a compressor, require quite a bit of filtration, these filter sets are usually £2-300 pounds a go. It may pay to shop around, but this is the sort of thing you should be looking at.

http://secure.thorite.co.uk/Safety-equipment/Air-fed-breathing-filter-sets/c-1-1434-1435/

[Doubleshadow]

Forgive me if someone has already covered this but has anyone got information regarding African Blackwood? And I'm guesing but I imagine that carving a handle with a blade would avoid the airborne particulate problem of all the dodgy woods wouldn't it?

[MushiSushi]

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/african-blackwood/

here ya go :)

[Doubleshadow]

Much obliged MushiSushi.

[scandi nut]

beware roupala lace wood it screws you up:rolleyes: and yes i speak from personal experience.
cheers
p.s. i quickly sanded some to take a look at the grain but its effects are short lived
thankfully (couple of hours)

[avoidspam]

another wood dust to be careful of is yew ,verry bad makes eyes sting and everything. farmers try to clear yew where they can because of livestock eating it, but all yew is protected if its trunk is thicker than 4inch thick.it can carry up to a 20,000 pound fine if you decide to cut your self as a friend found out the hard way .local council turned up just as he was cutting down the last of 5 trees 43 ,000 pound later hes out of a job ,but on an up side ive got some lovley knife scales!lol

Not quite sure where you've got the 4" thick bit from. Yew trees aren't specifically protected, any tree that is considered to be of amenity value may have a Tree Preservation Order or if it is in a Conservation area and over 75mm DBH (Diameter at breast height), regardless or species.

I digress, let the phagocytosis driven conversation continue:)

[Wayne D]

another wood dust to be careful of is yew ,verry bad makes eyes sting and everything. farmers try to clear yew where they can because of livestock eating it, but all yew is protected if its trunk is thicker than 4inch thick.it can carry up to a 20,000 pound fine if you decide to cut your self as a friend found out the hard way .local council turned up just as he was cutting down the last of 5 trees 43 ,000 pound later hes out of a job ,but on an up side ive got some lovley knife scales!lol

when I complained about 5 yew trees being cut down by a building contractor in Leicester , I was told by a Leicester County Council Officer that they are not protected unless they are of historic importance. (The Largest of the trees had a 38 inch diameter trunk and the smallest 21 inch Diameter)

[RamblerUK]

One wood to be careful of is Afromosia. The dust from this attacks your nervous system.

http://www.carbideprocessors.com/pages/woodworking/wood-allergens.html

[Chui]

If any of you ever pick up a wood called Tamboti from South Africa.......lovely smell and wood though it may appear, you need to treat it with great caution.

It is used, esp in SA obviously, but even the fumes from it - if in confined space - will make you very rough.

Ingest any and you'll likely be pretty sick for a few days........also good for megga headaches :lol:

Full face mask and well ventilated workshop required..........

[Ian Atkinson]

If any of you ever pick up a wood called Tamboti from South Africa.......lovely smell and wood though it may appear, you need to treat it with great caution.

It is used, esp in SA obviously, but even the fumes from it - if in confined space - will make you very rough.

Ingest any and you'll likely be pretty sick for a few days........also good for megga headaches :lol:

Full face mask and well ventilated workshop required..........

This sounds like the voice of experience, have you made yourself poorly!!

[Chui]

This sounds like the voice of experience, have you made yourself poorly!!

No, fortunately not.

I've been on a couple of walking-safaris in SA where on the last leg back into the fly camp we picked up wood for the fire - and tamboti is a fave on the fire cos of the smell.........but just a whiff, so not too much.

One of the game rangers I know, after a braai, he picked up a twig and fashioned it into a point with his penknife for a toothpick. It was an old dry piece of tamboti (didn't realise at first) - he didn't leave his bed for 3 days.

[Newbutkeen]

Really useful thread, thanks. As a newbie i'm not really clued up on the H&S stuff, will be grinding outside i think with a mask. Can anyone suggest a nice, not too expensive wood for handles that is pretty safe? I bought some hardwood offcuts a while back but not sure what they are (one is Padauk i think?)