View Full Version : Teach me about airguns
Hi folks, after having moved house myself, my dad has as well and he has some land behind the house which he's bought as well, rife with rabbits, game birds etc. I'm interested in getting an airgun which I could use to dispatch some small game - ideas?
I dont have a FAC but could probably obtain one, I'd rather not due to the cost and the responsibility which comes with it.
What can I get which I can legally hold, is reasonably cheap and is easily maintained?
Ta
:cop:
ANDYLASER
13-10-04, 05:55 PM
Precharged pneumatics are good. almost silent, virtually recoil-less, accurate and usually expensive. They also require a supply of compressed air to run them. This is usually achieved by using a diving cylinder to top up the inbuilt air resevoir. Check out Logun (http://www.logun.com/) . For less money and hassle spring power is commonly used. There are some very good rifles by Air Arms (http://www.air-arms.co.uk/HOME.htm) and Weihrauch (http://www.air-arms.co.uk/HOME.htm) . However, if you can afford one, I would reccomend a Theoben (http://www.theoben.co.uk). They use a gas ram system instead of a spring. Much more efficient and robust, very good consistency and reliable.
Have fun :biggthump :approve:
Ophidian
13-10-04, 05:56 PM
Hi Ross, get yourself over to the airgun BBS and have a look around
http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/index.php?
Or
http://www.airgunforum.net/agf/index.php?
There are plenty of good air rifles around, just depends what type you would like
An FAC should not be too difficult to obtain for someone like yourself. :)
I’ve had my FAC and Shotgun certificates for a couple of months and now have a couple of rimfires .22, a .303, .308 and a nice black powder revolver. :biggthump
I’m sure that you could even go to your Station’s confiscated property room and find yourself something suitable, or nab some kids while out on patrol. ;)
So for a Rimfire .22 airgun - I need a FAC, is this right?
Rimfire is form of live ammunition.
As for Air Rifles, usual question... What do you consider reasonably cheap? ;)
Next question... do you want to go for a spring powered air rifle; single shot, you have to break the barrel/under leaver to compress the spring, doesn't run out of air...
Or would you consider a precharged air rifle; precharged from either a divers tank or pump, no recoil, no spring noise, lighter, limited number of shots per charge . Initial outlay is more because you need to buy some form of filling tool, either a pump or divers tank.
If it's your first air rifle I'd recommend a spring powered one, as they will teach you a better shooting technique.
As for legality, an air rifle that does not require a licence is limited to 12ftlb which is perfectly capable of taking small game, although you need accurate shot placement for it to be humane.
Hope that helps... As you get more of a feel of what you want from your air rifle let us know and then we can start getting specific :D
Hellz
MotorbikeMan
13-10-04, 06:46 PM
Hey Ross,
Chances are there is a local gun club near you, go along and get to know them. I got invited to a walk and shoot at my local last weekend, shot for the first time in nearly twenty years and met a group of people almost as friendly as here on the forum :D (must be something to do with dangerous weapons :) ) If you go along and ask, they will be able to answer all your questions anjd, if you join, most clubs have club weapons you can try as well, a good investment if you're considering buying an airgun.
rapidboy
13-10-04, 06:50 PM
In Scotland i believe you can own a sub 12ft/lbs airgun in any calibre without an FAC.
For a higher powered airgun or a rimfire you need an FAC.
Contact your nearest Field Target club and go along for a visit.
You might not want to shoot FT but generally airgun shooters are a friendly bunch and will let you try their kit which is always nice before you spend loads of dosh.
Most modern precharged pneumatics are fine but if you want the best buy a Theoben .
The rapid7 is a design classic and is still one of if not the best airgun out there for hunting.
Do not read the airgun comics (Airgun world or Airgunner) they are just advertisements and you will learn a lot more from shooters at a club.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/392_9292_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/376_7606_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/404_0455_1.jpg
rb
[Edit - RB, if you're going to post pictures of dead game outside of the bushcraft forum, please use the hide tags, thanks ~ Martyn]
This is my Weirauch HW97 Centenaryandis an example of a 'Spring' Powered air rifle:
http://www.hellzteeth.com/airgunuk/images/hw97c.jpg
It’s a lovely rifle. Very accurate. Very Striking. On the down side it does weigh about the same as a Ford Fiesta...
This is my Air Arms S200 which is a precharged air rifle:
http://www.hellzteeth.com/airgunuk/images/S200log.JPG
It's a single shot, although they do a multi shot version, very light and pointable. You get 50 shots per charge, which is plenty if you're hunting. It is one of the more reasonably priced precharged rifles.
Then...
http://www.hellzteeth.com/airgunuk/images/stalker1.jpg
This is my Stalker Tiger Ten Carbine in .22 calibre. This is a custom version of BSA’s SuperTen rifle by Stalker Rifles. Lovely hand made walnut stock, and about 100 shots per charge. But not reasonably cheap... :rolleyes:
Hellz
paganwolf
13-10-04, 08:02 PM
Id go with Rapid boy ive had a rapid 7 for about 9 years now its the best hunting pre-charged rifle as far as im concerned :biggthump the Theoben fenman is a good choice also ive had one it was good they are bomb proof and suitable for left or right hookers they have a gas ram rather than a spring nice kit.
Tvividr
13-10-04, 08:10 PM
Webley Tracker :approve:
Always wanted one, can't get them here :mad: No kind of airgun would be legal for any kind of hunting (not even for shooting vermin) here though. So I have to rely on me centerfires for hunting here :noggin:
ANDYLASER
13-10-04, 08:11 PM
Webley Tracker :approve:
Always wanted one, can't get them here :mad: No kind of airgun would be legal for any kind of hunting (not even for shooting vermin) here though. So I have to rely on me centerfires for hunting here :noggin:
Sounds like a fair compromise. :approve:
rapidboy
13-10-04, 08:27 PM
[QUOTE=Ophidian] and a nice black powder revolver. :biggthump QUOTE]
Now your talking :D :D :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/3.jpg
rb
Ophidian
13-10-04, 09:41 PM
Hi Ross, just a suggestion. Try and have a word with your local Firearms Liaison Officer and mention the area of land that you intend to shoot across and he may have knowledge of the area and be able to tell you if it would be suitable for either an FAC rated air-rifle or a rim-fire cartridge .22 rifle. It may only be suited to a sub 12 ftlbs air rifle.
Rim-fire rifles like the CZ varmint (which I own) have a very good reputation and can be bought new for as little as £225, which is a bargain compared to most pcp air rifles.
Even something like a Sako, considered by many to be about the best rim-fire rifle there is, can be bought for less than £500.
The .22 rim-fire Long rifle ammunition is quite cheap @ about £2 a box of 50 and of course you don’t have to pump up or fill from a divers bottle. If you go for a rim-fire, also put in for a sound moderator (silencer) otherwise every bunny in the area will dive for cover after the first shot. With a sound moderator they won’t notice (and neither will any neighbours.
I have a .22 Theoben MFR (sub 12 ftlbs) and it is fantastic, however they are expensive at about £850 and the spare mags are £50 each for the larger 12 shot capacity.
One other rifle that I really rate is the Falcon Raptor multi-shot (8 shot), I had one before the Theoben and it was really good. It had a nice skeleton stock. I think these rifles cost about £450 new so you should be able to pick up a s/h one for about £300.
Spare mags are a bargain £10 each.
richardw
14-10-04, 01:51 PM
Hi Ross,
Two points I would like to make:
1) A 12ft lb air rifle will teach you more about fieldcraft and getting close to your quarry than a rimfire ever would.
2) I never shoot anything other than ground game with my .22. The carry over of them is about a mile, and if shooting upwards into a tree even further. Also flinty ground can be a nightmare. A couple of years agi in the south east a child was badly injured by a stray .22 bullet, thought to have been fired one and a half miles away!
The bigger calibres are actually safer, because their velocity enables the bullet to fragment better.
An air rifle, in the right hands, is an excellent weapon and I know many gamekeepers who use them on a regular basis.
Richard
Tvividr
14-10-04, 02:37 PM
1) A 12ft lb air rifle will teach you more about fieldcraft and getting close to your quarry than a rimfire ever would.
:biggthump and a big :biggthump for the point on safety with rimfires or any other 'fires for that matter.
2) I never shoot anything other than ground game with my .22. The carry over of them is about a mile, and if shooting upwards into a tree even further.
Not so. If you shoot straight upwards, the bullet will come straight back down. Optimum angle for maximum travel would be in the region of 30 degrees from horizontal.
Whilst the carts are labelled dangerous up to a mile, the actual max distance they will travel is much less in practice. Best to err on caution of course.
The bigger calibres are actually safer, because their velocity enables the bullet to fragment better.
Er, not necessarily. A lightweight bullet at high velocity will fragment, but this is likely to be a lower calibre (e.g. .17). A heavy .308 fmj doesn't do a whole lot of fragmenting!
The velocity is higher in centrefire but this is not because of the calibre.
Hi Ross,
Visit the guy's at www.airgunbuyer.com they are very helpful and sell new and s/h airguns, they also have a customer review section. On a personal note my Falcon FN19 has given me many years of trouble free use it is a precharged gun and capable of hitting 1p pieces at 40m with ease. Also anything by Air Arms is very good spring and precharged the 400 and 410's are ledgendary, the BSA Hornet I tried at the MGF was also very good. Remember if you buy a precharged airgun you will need a source of compressed air either a pump or divers air cylinder prices start from about a £100.
Cheers
Graham.
richardw
14-10-04, 04:50 PM
Not so. If you shoot straight upwards, the bullet will come straight back down. Optimum angle for maximum travel would be in the region of 30 degrees from horizontal.
Whilst the carts are labelled dangerous up to a mile, the actual max distance they will travel is much less in practice. Best to err on caution of course..
I was talking about the practicalities and safety of shooting. I would of course like to see someone who could shoot a rifle, from the shoulder, standing position, in a completely vertical plane.
How many birds have you been able to get vertically underneath? Don't branches get in the way?
I still hold my view that you should not shoot upwards with a.22 rimfire.
On the subject of pneumatics, nearly all rifles produced are excellent, the only downside being the additional cost of compressed air. I am lucky enough that my local gun shop does a re-fill for 50p which lasts be a good 60 shots.
On the subject of accuracy, if you can hit a film canister 9 out of 10 times at 35 yards, you will be good enough to take any vermin cleanly at that range.
If you're not sure, don't take the shot.
Richard
I grew up with Air-rifles and .22 rifles (rim-fire as called here).
I have a scar on my left shoulder from not practicing safety with a rifle at night time. No major damage done, went clean in and out, but scared my parents to death.
A .22 rifle depending upon the cartridges use will have a accuracy of up to about 75-110yds. After that you have to start taking in account for wind velocity and other factors if your trying to hit a target the size of a .50p coin.
The best and luckiest shot I ever had with a .22 rifle was hitting a crow in flight, in the head at just over 100yds, no scope.... it was pure luck. Then again I never used a scope and was a marksman with open sights.
While someone mentioned that you can get long-rifle rounds cheap.. keep in mind that cheap may be fun to go out and shoot with, but you'll spend hours cleaning your rifle afterwards. They leave a huge amount of residue in the chamber which will affect the ability for the rifle to eject the spent shell. You'll get alot of them hung in the chamber you'll get a fair amount of mis-fires. Over time the cheapos can start to damage the gun.
I never did alot with air rifles other than had a few cheap ones... was no need in them really since I had several .22 caliber rifles at a young age.
cheers,
Joe
I was talking about the practicalities and safety of shooting. I would of course like to see someone who could shoot a rifle, from the shoulder, standing position, in a completely vertical plane.
How many birds have you been able to get vertically underneath? Don't branches get in the way?
I still hold my view that you should not shoot upwards with a.22 rimfire.
I never said that shooting up was a good idea, just that your point regarding it going further vertically was wrong - which it is :p
The physics of shooting a rifle vertically? Easy. However if I'm shooting into trees then a 12b is my tool of choice. :biggthump
lemoneyewash
14-10-04, 08:08 PM
Hi Ross.
richardw's comment "A 12ft lb air rifle will teach you more about fieldcraft and getting close to your quarry than a rimfire ever would." is SO true and is the point I would have made myself.
Always used 12 ft lb 'springers' meself for fun (various Webley's - great guarantee, an A/A TX200 - phenomenally accurate - 1p's at 30 Metres and, finally, a Diana 34 - reliable, accurate enough and very reliable). Still can't hit a barn door with a 12B... :rolleyes: :(
My advice is do your 'basic training' with an open sighted springer. Hit 4 out of 5 Trebor Extra Strong Mints regularly at about 20 yards. Get a 6 x 40 scope and start hitting them at 30 metres or so (your realistic limit at 12 ftlbs with a springer).
THEN you're ready to hunt.
THEN you can start looking at the 'Fancy Dan' :D stuff of pre-charged which, to be fair I've used and is much easier and therefore more accurate to use than a springer. Choice of gun is very much a personal one and I wouldn't presume to recommend. Just have fun.
Many thanks guys, all the advice is much appreciated. I've alot to think about, although I will be starting without a FAC rifle and taking it from there. I cant justify spending too much money cos I dont go up to my dad's too often....
MotorbikeMan
16-10-04, 01:01 PM
Graham posted
Visit the guy's at www.airgumbuyer.com
I think that's www.airgunbuyer.com (http://www.airgunbuyer.com) :wink:
BTTT
Is this one any good?:
http://www.pellpax.co.uk/acatalog/RatSniper.JPG
Rat Sniper Co2 .22 Air Rifle (QB78)
Probably the best Rifle on the site for the money, and we sell a lot in the shop, our customers see it and fall in love with it.
It takes 2 Co2 12g Co2 capsules and gives you approx 70 shots at around the same power output as the Ratcatcher
Type: Bolt Action Loading .22 cal
Trigger: Single Stage three way adjustable.
Safety:; Trigger block safety.
Stock: Hardwood.
Barrell: Steel Rifled 12 grooves.
Lengh: 40 inches (1015mm)
Weight: 5.75 lbs (7.6kg)
It would be used for rabbits. Ta!
mojofilter
22-04-05, 06:49 PM
I suspect that it would be lucky to make 8ftlb compared to the 12lbft you could get from a similarly priced springer, but this is only based on my suspicions and I may be completely wrong! :D
I stand to be shot down in flames :rolleyes:
ANDYLASER
22-04-05, 07:13 PM
CO2 airguns are notoriously underpowered and suffer from power drop off as the pressure dies. You will also find you spend lots of money on CO2 bottles.
C02 guns are good 'fun' but not all that effective. For rabbits I would suggest something that is likely to be much more humane, like a full legal limit spring rifle. Anything from makers like BSA or Weirauch will provide you with a much more appropriate tool.
Have a look for something like the BSA Lightning and see if that appeals, it has a good reputation and shouldn't break the bank (although I haven't bought an air rifle for quite sometime...)
HTH,
Hellz
Hi Ross,
Two points I would like to make:
1) A 12ft lb air rifle will teach you more about fieldcraft and getting close to your quarry than a rimfire ever would.
Richard
I agree, it takes a lot of patience and skill getting close enough to rabbits for a clean kill. On one occasion my shooting partner commented that he thought I was getting close enough to club it with the butt! :noggin: I have 2 exception Weihrauchs, HW77 and HW80. Getting on a bit now but well serviced and still accurate.
Brainflex
23-04-05, 02:47 PM
Gotta agree with every one that says 12ft/lb spring gun just find one you like the look of and how it feels to you,stick a 4x40 scope on, lots of pellets and practise needed.
Great fun and another potential drain on your pocket.
Sunraven
23-04-05, 03:40 PM
Ross I would agree with the others here that have said to go for a spring rifle first.
Have a look at a Air Arms TX 200 one of the best spritng rifles. You will then need a scope and mounts (look through any scope you think of buying befre getting it, cheap scopes can often have bad quality images ie cloudy but not always)
Yuo also need to think about what calibre you want to get either .177 or .22. A long standing debate over which is better ;) .177 has alot flatter tradjectory and is fine for rabbits. Due to the flatter tradjectory it should be easier for you to learn to shoot with.
You will also need a gun bag and a target. Gun bag so you can transport the air rifle and a target so you can practice and learn to hit a 1 inch target consistently. Metal knockdown targets are commonly used at air rifle clubs. You need to find at what distance you can consistantly knock the target down at and learn to judge distances.
You need to learn how to judge distance so you know where to aim at for that distance to hit where you want due to the tradjectory of the pellet. With a .177 it should be relatively flat out to about 30-35 yards which will probably be the furthest you would want to take a shot at live quarry anyway.
Have a look for an air rifle club near you and go down and talk to the people there they can give you alot of good advice and help you practice. Many may also let you try out one of their guns to see which you like. Try here for a list of clubs http://www.ukahft.org.uk/airgunclubs.htm also here http://www.bfta.org/Clubs/Finder.html
Hope this all helps. Have fun and shoot safe :)
Thanks again guys, some excellent advice. I'll go for a spring one first I think, get confident with it.
Cheers!
Brainflex
24-04-05, 09:33 AM
http://www.jsramsbottom.com/
Have a nosey on this site for some ideas of prices.
rapidboy
24-04-05, 11:22 AM
The efficiency of CO2 is effected by the ambient temperature so your point of impact will change depending on the weather conditions.
Co2 will not make high velocities from commercially available gun's (customs can but are not really a consideration here due to price).
I have used a CO2 "rat catcher" for shooting feral pigeons inside a tile showroom and store ,it was doing around 7 ft/lbs and was excellent for the job but i was only shooting out to around 20 yd's ,it would not be suitable for rabbits or for longer ranges.
A second hand ,quality spring gun like a HW77 or HW80 ,TX200 or a RWS 52 would be a good choice.
All these guns are built to last but have gone out of fashion in the last few years due to the interest in PCP's.
You should be able to pick up a gun for £100 - £150 that will last a lifetime but the best thing to do is go along to a field target or HFT club and try a few out to see what suit's you best.
is there a way to measure ft/lbs with out special equipment?
Basemetal
24-04-05, 01:20 PM
Sounds like a High School physics problem....
You could make a "ballistic pendulum" ...(beloved of '70's physics papers)
Or measure pellet speed. The mass of the pellet and speed will give you the energy transferred to the pellet. (ft lbs = 0.5 x(pellet weight in lbs)x (speed in fps) x (speed in fps). (Awful units I know, and speed is in there twice to get "speed squared"). There will be an element of "averaging" in any simple method of measuring speed -but its the energy at the target that determines killing power -and the energy at the muzzle that is produced by the gun. An average isn't therefore entirely useless.
The efficiency of CO2 is effected by the ambient temperature so your point of impact will change depending on the weather conditions.
Co2 will not make high velocities from commercially available gun's (customs can but are not really a consideration here due to price).
I have used a CO2 "rat catcher" for shooting feral pigeons inside a tile showroom and store ,it was doing around 7 ft/lbs and was excellent for the job but i was only shooting out to around 20 yd's ,it would not be suitable for rabbits or for longer ranges.
A second hand ,quality spring gun like a HW77 or HW80 ,TX200 or a RWS 52 would be a good choice.
All these guns are built to last but have gone out of fashion in the last few years due to the interest in PCP's.
You should be able to pick up a gun for £100 - £150 that will last a lifetime but the best thing to do is go along to a field target or HFT club and try a few out to see what suit's you best.
Ambient temperature effects all types of shooting, be it rimfire, centerfire, CO2 or Air rifle (depending on where the cylinder was charged).
It will effect burn times of propellants as well
Sunraven
24-04-05, 10:14 PM
Air temperature affects CO2 guns alot more than it does a PcP rifle. A PcP will often have a regulator though not all do and even unregulated PcP are very accurate in terms of consistent power output.
All this talk about airguns has got me interested. :D
I spent far too long on Sunday browsing the various sites on the net.
I fancy an air pistol for plinking and target shooting in the back garden to start with. I would also like a rifle but thought this would be overkill and a bit easy over short distances. Maybe later on if I really get the bug! :D More cool shiny toys! I read the reviews on the Daystate MkIII and was more than impressed with the technology.
So I think I would like a high quality pistol with the ability to fire multiple shots without reloading. So far one prime candidate has stood out.
The Styer LP50.
See here http://www.edinkillie.co.uk/steyr/air-pistols.htm
What else would you get to go with it?
Obviously a means of charging it such as a hand pump.
Plinking targets. These look good.
http://www.nockover-targets.co.uk/pistol_nockover8.html
As do these paper targets.
http://www.jsramsbottom.com/cgi-bin/jsr.exe/dynamiclink?a=1&b=0&z=0&aP=0&source=/ACC/TARG/A_targets.HTM
I am not really interested in hunting. Just targets. Although the FT comps do look kind of interesting.
Any more thoughts?
Thanks
Mark
Brainflex
25-04-05, 11:49 AM
It appears budget is not a major concern but the Rohm is a excellent bit of kit at a good price and can be run on Co2 and compressed air with single and multi shot capability.
http://www.jsramsbottom.com/cgi-bin/jsr.exe/dynamiclink?
Lord Farquhar
25-04-05, 12:30 PM
I have an air arms TX200 and is mistaral.
The oar arms tx200 have won quite a few awards it the gun i most use and i have never looked back.
MotorbikeMan
25-04-05, 01:13 PM
All this talk about airguns has got me interested. :D
I spent far too long on Sunday browsing the various sites on the net.
I fancy an air pistol for plinking and target shooting in the back garden to start with. I would also like a rifle but thought this would be overkill and a bit easy over short distances. Maybe later on if I really get the bug! :D More cool shiny toys! I read the reviews on the Daystate MkIII and was more than impressed with the technology.
So I think I would like a high quality pistol with the ability to fire multiple shots without reloading. So far one prime candidate has stood out.
The Styer LP50.
See here http://www.edinkillie.co.uk/steyr/air-pistols.htm
What else would you get to go with it?
Obviously a means of charging it such as a hand pump.
Plinking targets. These look good.
http://www.nockover-targets.co.uk/pistol_nockover8.html
As do these paper targets.
http://www.jsramsbottom.com/cgi-bin/jsr.exe/dynamiclink?a=1&b=0&z=0&aP=0&source=/ACC/TARG/A_targets.HTM
I am not really interested in hunting. Just targets. Although the FT comps do look kind of interesting.
Any more thoughts?
Thanks
MarkThat's a mighty impressive bit of kit just foir plinking Mark, are you sure it's not a bit of overkill for back garden field target shooting?
You are probably correct about the overkill. But I don't mind spending the money if I end up with a bit of kit that will give me years of trouble free service. Plus there will be no blaming the pistol for my dodgy shooting! :D
I see that the Styer L50 is a proper semi-auto. Where the Rohm is a two stage trigger pull to rotate the next shot. I also see people have had a few problems with the Rohm on the airgun forums. Not heard a bad word about the Styer.
Thanks
Mark
tenbears10
25-04-05, 03:22 PM
Don't know if anyone mentioned gun trader (http://www.guntrader.co.uk/) but it's a decent site if only to check new and second hand prices at several retail and private locations.
They have everything from air rifles to pairs of matched Purdeys :D
rapidboy
25-04-05, 05:31 PM
I have shot a few Steyr's inc. the LP5 and LP50 and they are truly beautiful gun's.
Expensive but if you want the best they dont come much better.
I had a Rohm for a while and consider it to be about the best of the cheaper Co2 guns (much better than the COLT's ,Beretta's and Walther clones).
I never had a problem with mine and any problems i have heard about have been related either to dirt (all CO2 and precharged airguns need to be kept clean) or more commonly to do with people trying to increase the power.
The knockover targets are great ,we have 40 in the club that have had years of use and abuse and i have 6 at home that get a lot of use for practice and they are all still going strong.
Thanks for the info. Nice to here from someone who has first hand experience of the Steyr’s.
Mark
Buccaneer
25-04-05, 10:25 PM
All this talk about airguns has got me interested. :D
I spent far too long on Sunday browsing the various sites on the net.
I fancy an air pistol for plinking and target shooting in the back garden to start with. I would also like a rifle but thought this would be overkill and a bit easy over short distances. Maybe later on if I really get the bug! :D More cool shiny toys! I read the reviews on the Daystate MkIII and was more than impressed with the technology.
So I think I would like a high quality pistol with the ability to fire multiple shots without reloading. So far one prime candidate has stood out.
The Styer LP50.
See here http://www.edinkillie.co.uk/steyr/air-pistols.htm
What else would you get to go with it?
Obviously a means of charging it such as a hand pump.
Plinking targets. These look good.
http://www.nockover-targets.co.uk/pistol_nockover8.html
As do these paper targets.
http://www.jsramsbottom.com/cgi-bin/jsr.exe/dynamiclink?a=1&b=0&z=0&aP=0&source=/ACC/TARG/A_targets.HTM
I am not really interested in hunting. Just targets. Although the FT comps do look kind of interesting.
Any more thoughts?
Thanks
Mark
Like others have mentioned, I bought a Rohm pistol and very nice it is too. To pump it up I use a Hill hand pump. It takes around 60 pumps to get it upto 200Bar.
The Daystate Mk3 is lovelly, handled one over the weekend, but I've decided to go for the X2 version, maybe the new sports model when I can get to hold one.
http://www.airgunbuyer.com/webnews.asp?ID=305
When I get the rifle I will also be getting an air bottle to do the filling. So if you are still in need of a hand pump in about 2 weeks time I'll do you a deal.
Paul
Great thread, that CO2 rifle is a Chinese clone of the old Crosman 160 air rifle from the 1960's. It's a certifiable tackdriver.
What do people use for targets and backstops?
I have access to a sheet metal shop at work! :D
I thought that something to hold standard paper targets and catch the pellets would be a good project. Need to make it quiet as possible though. So it would need covering in carpet or something?
Any more ideas?
Thanks
Mark
Loose carpet does help reduce the noise. When I used to practise I had a range set up with a wall of straw bales inside a corrugated shelter, that was quiet ;)
The funnel style pellet catchers are good, but as you might expect they are noisey!
All this is making me want to start practising again... Must get my tanks filled soon...
Hellz
Brainflex
26-04-05, 10:26 AM
One thing to remember with quality target pistols is that while they are very accurate they are also intolerant of any mistakes.That is everything must be done right to get the most from them.Having instructed, I have seen that this can be disheartening for beginners.So rushing out and buying the best isn't always the ideal solution.You cannot buy ability.
:-p
I made a cheap backstop by using a metal bucket and building up about a 3" thickness of modeling clay in the bottom of it. A couple of bulldog clips to hold the target and you had a 10" wide target holder and backstop in one for less than £5. Adjust the clay thickness depending on power of weapon and distance from target 3" of clay dealt with 12ft lbs of .22 at 20 yards with no problem.
You can then collect the pellets and melt them down into fishing weights, being careful not to breath in the fumes of course.
Cheers,
Graham
MotorbikeMan
26-04-05, 12:38 PM
I used to use a box made from plywood about a foot deep and 3 or 4 inches bigger than the target all round, with two bars about 4 inches inside that I pinned the targets too, and a couple of layers of carpet in the back. We used to use it on the landing upstairs (just about a 10 metre range) and you couldn't hear it down stairs
mojofilter
26-04-05, 02:54 PM
I used to use just a log round, but it did get mashed up pretty quickly! Im tempted to get my guns out now too. :)
I used about 3inches of carboard that I just put in a box. Targets were stood on a box of wood (or often bottle tops resting on the bottles). Cost nothing and worked fine.
(my mother then took out some of teh padding and put the grass from our garden in it and was going to give this to the rabbit!! She got upset when my dad threw the grass away)
I am still deciding if it would be better to shoot towards the garden shed, or towards the house. House has a better overall backstop in the form of brick walls. It also has Glass windows! :(
The shed is in the corner of the garden and has thin fences either side of it to the adjacent properties. So I could shoot diagonally across the garden towards the shed and whatever backstop I devise. Missing the backstop would then result in pellets hitting the shed.
Mark
rapidboy
26-04-05, 06:01 PM
I melted a load of lead and filled a large baking tray to make a backstop for behind the chronograph.
Lead pellets are stopped very well with no ricochets and it's quiet but not very portable :lol:
MotorbikeMan
26-04-05, 06:07 PM
I am still deciding if it would be better to shoot towards the garden shed, or towards the house. House has a better overall backstop in the form of brick walls. It also has Glass windows! :(
The shed is in the corner of the garden and has thin fences either side of it to the adjacent properties. So I could shoot diagonally across the garden towards the shed and whatever backstop I devise. Missing the backstop would then result in pellets hitting the shed.
Mark
I know someone who had a similar problem. In the end, they strung a line up just infront of the house, bought some ex army blankets and loosely hung up a double layer of the blankets. As they could move and absorb the energy of the pellet, this was effective at stopping even airguns that were on an FAC. Might be worth a try
Basemetal
26-04-05, 06:31 PM
IS there a legally specified distance you have to be away from a "public thoroughfare"?
mojofilter
26-04-05, 06:34 PM
I think that there is BM, although Im not sure what distance it is. 20 or 30 yards rings a bell. Im sure one of the more dedicated shooters will know.
Here is my back garden.
http://www.cones-stuff.co.uk/BackGarden/Garden1.JPG
http://www.cones-stuff.co.uk/BackGarden/Garden2.JPG
I thought diagonally towards the shed door from the bottom left toward the top right diagonal would be best.
With a 2mm sheet steel backstop covered in carpet. With possibly a target funnel holder filled again with carpet in front of it.
I like the blanket suggestion. If this does not work out I may try that.
I have also discovered that I could use my garage and open the rear door through to the utility room. This would give me a 7.5M indoor range! Great for when it is raining.
Thanks again for all the help so far.
Mark
Up in Scotland, there's a thing called 'Reckless Discharge' (yeah, I know, phnar phnar....) of a firearm, which is commonly used when people are not as careful as you Cones, and fail to set up stops etc, and the pellets strike someone or something, causing damage or injury.
mojofilter
26-04-05, 06:45 PM
Nice digs Mark! :D
Similar to the blanket idea, but substitute for a sheet of rubber. This was used on a 25m indoor range for SA80 rifles firing .22 calibre rounds with the H&K conversion kit. No rebounds or ricochets, and the rubber stops the rounds from whizzing along so fast. I believe there was then a steel sheet behind the rubber, but for plinking, you wouldn't need that.
Just an idea.
Spamel
i thought rubber was a little dodgy with airgun pellets? I thought they could rebound from it if you are not careful.
Thanks
Mark
Up in Scotland, there's a thing called 'Reckless Discharge' (yeah, I know, phnar phnar....) of a firearm,
this is not a question so much about the law but more about the clasification.. but?? is an air gun of below 12 ft/lbs classed as a fire arm even though you dont need a FAC?
MotorbikeMan
26-04-05, 08:04 PM
i thought rubber was a little dodgy with airgun pellets? I thought they could rebound from it if you are not careful.
Thanks
Mark
We once had some rubber field targets at the airgun club I was a member of and we didn't use them for long. I guess it would depend on the rubber, but these ones definately bounced a lot of pellets back to us on a 25 yard range. I would tend to steer clear of rubber for this use. Apert from that, old carpet and blankets would be a lot cheaper and easier to get hold of
Taff Ogri
26-04-05, 08:09 PM
Tomtom,
Forgive me for barging in but I've just joined this forum, having been a member of AirgunBBS for a few years.
You are correct in your assumption that a sub 12ftlb airgun IS classified as a firearm, yet requires no licence. Use it correctly and all will be smiles - however, if used with criminal intent, the full firearms book is there to be thrown at you.
Things such as - written shooting permission from the landowner, a phone call to say that you will be carrying out "vermin control" to the local police station, and a chrono to check the muzzle energy of your rifle are all sensible precautions to take, that will demonstrate your law-abiding nature to neighbors/suspicious members of the public etc.
ATB
Ogri the trog
ZDP-189
26-04-05, 08:09 PM
Can you build a pellet trap? Thick straw matting bailed to a wooden board would make an adequate backstop.
i thought rubber was a little dodgy with airgun pellets? I thought they could rebound from it if you are not careful.
Thanks
Mark
Rubber tyres most certainly, but as this is a sheet hanging from a suspended line, it shouldn't be a problem.
Spamel
MotorbikeMan
26-04-05, 08:30 PM
BM is right, there is a legal requirement with regards to public access, it's 50ft from the centre of a road so you should be ok there. Looking at the pics of your garden though, you may have problems shooting towards the house at the end, this could come under a public nuisance. I found some brief info here (http://website.lineone.net/~triggerfish/gunlaw.htm) but there are others much more suited than I to answer this one.
DANZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D
wolflore
26-04-05, 09:49 PM
Theres always some confusion over the middle of the road issue. Apparently the law lies in the fact that you have to be causing interference or distraction to road users or pedestrians. I thnk that means that on a quiet road you could be shooting off to one side whiclst stood at the edge of it and and if you didn't cause a problem you would not be in the wrong.
The wording is not corrrect and I have been at the whiskey (single malt - Islay) but the basic facts, I think are correct.
Can anyone add to this? RapidBoy - I know you're a local on Airgun BBS - maybe you can.
this is not a question so much about the law but more about the clasification.. but?? is an air gun of below 12 ft/lbs classed as a fire arm even though you dont need a FAC?
As Ogri says, it is a firearm. Even something which looks like a firearm - is a firearm.
Tiffers
26-04-05, 10:22 PM
I used to use a box made from plywood about a foot deep and 3 or 4 inches bigger than the target all round, with two bars about 4 inches inside that I pinned the targets too, and a couple of layers of carpet in the back. We used to use it on the landing upstairs (just about a 10 metre range) and you couldn't hear it down stairs
It wasn't infallible when it came to catching the spent pellets though.........I remember being paid 2p per pellet collected from the landing floor!
Tiffers
rapidboy
26-04-05, 11:01 PM
From the BASC website ........
"it is against the law, in England and Wales, to fire an air rifle within 50 feet of the centre of a highway, if by doing so you cause any member of the public, using that right of way, to be injured, interrupted or endangered. This offence could be committed, for example, by someone on private property close to a road who uses an air rifle in a way which endangers people on the road."
BM is right, there is a legal requirement with regards to public access, it's 50ft from the centre of a road so you should be ok there. Looking at the pics of your garden though, you may have problems shooting towards the house at the end, this could come under a public nuisance. I found some brief info here (http://website.lineone.net/~triggerfish/gunlaw.htm) but there are others much more suited than I to answer this one.
DANZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D
What?
Danzo
wolflore
27-04-05, 06:44 PM
From the BASC website ........
"it is against the law, in England and Wales, to fire an air rifle within 50 feet of the centre of a highway, if by doing so you cause any member of the public, using that right of way, to be injured, interrupted or endangered. This offence could be committed, for example, by someone on private property close to a road who uses an air rifle in a way which endangers people on the road."
;) Top Man!
There you go, I could have stayed asleep!
:D
Danzo
Quick update.
I have sent a load of emails to various suppliers for quotes on the Steyr LP50.
Still waiting for a few replies. Obviously not keen on making a sale! :(
I am edging towards getting it all from one supplier if possible. Saves on postage and makes it simple if I have any problems. I know that some Steyr dealers are grey imports. Not sure if this is a big deal or not.
I will now ask another question. I know I should join the Airgun BBS (Been Lurking there). But everyone hear is so helpful and friendly. Well mostly anyway :D
Right enough creeping! Back to the question.
What do you all use to charge you airguns with?
Is it best to use a 300Bar 12L divers air bottle or get a Hill stirrup pump with a drypack system? A know the divers bottle delivers the best air quality and will not introduce moisture into the cylinder. I have read the the hand pump can produce excessive moisture which will over time rust the inside of the cylinder.
Your thoughts please?
Many Thanks
Mark
rapidboy
28-04-05, 07:02 PM
A lot of my PCP shooting is a Rapid running at 30ft/lbs so i use a lot of air and I also run a 12ft/lbs FT rig so this justify's me having a 15 litre bottle.
I know a lot of FT and pistol shooters use smaller bottles but i always recommend a large bottle as it will allow you to fill other guns if you decide to try something else.
I have tried a pump (filling a 12 ftllb's gun) and it's not for me ,vigorously pumping just before or half way through a competition does little to steady your aim and quite frankly you can look a bit of a tit using one.
I used to have one for charging TAC's (a simple 1 stroke affair which was fine but not for charging pistols or rifles).
You also have the moisture issue and i know a couple that have given trouble so i would go for a bottle.
I dont know any FT or pistol shooters who fill from a pump ,all use a bottle.
As for a Steyr ,an LG100 will very probably be my next FT gun and i have looked into the various sources.
From what i have heard the only place to buy a steyr is from Mendip Shooting Ground ,http://www.mendipclays.co.uk/.
I believe they only sell genuine UK imports (imported by the UK dealer ,Harry Preston) and are covered by the full Steyr warranty.
rb
Sunraven
28-04-05, 07:12 PM
A divers bottle is a good idea for use with an air rifle. CLean dry air and at alot less effort than using a pump. Try pumping up an air rifle to 200 bar it is hard work but a good way to get fit ;)
You can get filters for pumps and ones that remove moisture and for a pistol it should not be too much work and lighter to carry around. But it will take longer to use a pump than a divers bottle. I do know that most people that get a pump end up buying a divers bottle in the end. For a pistol you should get quite a few charges from quite a small divers bottle before it needs recharging. You can get bottles for quite reasonable prices second hand but make sure they are in test ( they need to get checked every so often and pass a pressure test) Also if you do get a divers bottle if you are going to take it to a club then a 300 bar 12L bottle does weight quite alot ;)
Looking at these people for bottle systems.
http://www.aqualung.co.uk/mde/precharged.htm
The plus is they are within 35 miles of me. So I can collect. Plus it is designed around airgun charging.
I may get a pump anyway. Useful as a backup if the bottle goes empty!
Get the pump with the pistol then a bottle later when the funds have recovered! :D
Thanks
Mark
Taff Ogri
28-04-05, 08:50 PM
Cones,
It all depends on what you'll be using the rifle for. As you.ve mentioned a Steyr, I'll guess at FT/HFT competitions - in which case you will probably want the ease of using a divers bottle - its known quality/pressure and you'll be aware of regular refills and pressure curves. Lots of pellets in a short period of time.
If you were to want the rifle to hunt etc then a stirrup pump might serve you better, occaisional top-ups, refilling when you get home from the hunt etc etc. A few pellets over and entire weekend.
Horses for courses.
Remember that there will be costs involved in purchasing the equipment and its legal upkeep!
ATB
Ogri the trog
Wow, have you seen the Rapid MkI with the full length silencer and Gary Cane custom stock on the secondhand page at BAR?
http://www.airgunbuyer.com/Showproducts.asp?cat=Secondhand&SubCat=Secondhand%20Rifles
Scroll down, it looks a beaut. RB what's your opinion on this rifle, is it worth the money?
Would someone in the market be better off with a newer MFR?
Celtic Dragon
29-04-05, 04:24 PM
Rapids do tend to hold their price well. Whether I'd pay £700 for 1, I'm not sure as I tend to favor milatary style rifles.
But with a Gary Cane stock thats a fair price, which ain't cheap to start with :D
rapidboy
29-04-05, 08:39 PM
Martyn ,
Celtic Dragon is right about rapid's holding their price well ,they also do exactly what they are designed to do very well.
If you want a working rifle that will shoot as well if not better than anything else,that will be reliable and consistent and hold it's value then a rapid's a first class choice.
If it was a car it would be a Landrover ,a knife it would be a Woodlore !
I am in the fortunate position that i can afford pretty much whatever airgun i want and i have owned my first rapid for around 9 years now.
As far as im concerned it has yet to be bettered and i see no reason to buy anything else ,(i have also had 2 other rapids in different calibres and power levels).
I have looked at Ripley's ,Daystate's ,Steyr's etc. etc. and i still think the rapid comes out in front.
I hunt with mine and shoot "sporting air rifle" competitions with it and it regularly beats Ripley's ,Steyr's ,Air Arm's and Daystate's (and they are all target rifles - the rapid was only ever designed as a hunting gun.)
The rapid on the BAR site looks like it already has an MFR silencer fitted but it doesn't mention what size bottle , (standard rapid's can run a 400 or even 500cc bottle but MFR's run 280 only).
MFR's can run with a smaller bottle because they have a regulator fitted ,this gun may have been converted.
The difference is really down to the ,trigger ,loading and regulator.
The Mk1 rapid has a very basic trigger and the MFR has a more sophisticated affair.
Personally i feel the Mk1 trigger has had a lot of unfair criticism ,Theoben have tried several times to put a more sophisticated trigger in the rapid's and none have been as reliable as the bog standard "gamo style" original unit.
On a hunting gun a trigger needs to be reliable and robust ,target style unit's give problems because they where never intended to be used in a hunting environment.
The MFR also has the option of single shot loading - the merits of this are debatable and really down to personal preference.
The Mk1 does not have a regulator fitted as standard and the MFR does.
Reg's give more shots and better consistency but they are a potential weakness in a system so you have to decide if a regulated shot is more important that reliability.
My FT gun does have a reg (and after i travelled to England it failed just before an important competition :mad: ) but it's a target gun and target gun's have regulators !
My rapid does not have a reg and i choose not to have one retro fitted for reliability.
Gary Cane makes some beautiful stocks and i have shot a rapid with one of his multi coloured laminate thumbhole stocks fitted - it was a peach but bear in mind that custom stocks are often made to "fit" an individual that may well be a different shape and size to you so id advice you handle the gun to make sure it suit's you.
This gun has an adjustable butt plate that can help a lot with gun fit so that's another plus point.
Mk1's have less component parts and are very easy to work at should you decide to service yourself.
If it was me id go with the Rapid ,not that i don't like MFR's (i do) but that is a nice looking rig that should do everything you want ,hold it's price and turn quiet a few heads.
rb
Thanks for tyhat RB, I know you are about as knowledgeable on these guns as anyone, so I reakon I can take that to the bank. I like buddy bottle rifles for thier convenience,and the rapids have a fantastic reputation. This particular one looks stunning. From the looks of it (although it's hard to tell) it would seem to have a 400cc bottle.
rapidboy
29-04-05, 09:36 PM
400cc bottle makes it a little heavier but nothing to worry about for a big strong lad ,(actually helps steady you up) and means you could turn up the power (FAC required) if you feel the need later.
One other thing Martyn ,most rapid owners that fit a sling do so with a barrel band.
In my experience this is not a good idea and i don't use a sling anymore.
However a swivel stud is handy for fitting a bi-pod and that stock (like my Tyrolean version) looks like it could accommodate a stud at the front which is nice for some long range bunny bashing.
BAR have a great reputation among shooters ,i was speaking to Lloyd a couple of weeks ago and he was very helpful.
rb
400cc bottle makes it a little heavier but nothing to worry about for a big strong lad ,(actually helps steady you up) and means you could turn up the power (FAC required) if you feel the need later.
One other thing Martyn ,most rapid owners that fit a sling do so with a barrel band.
In my experience this is not a good idea and i don't use a sling anymore.
However a swivel stud is handy for fitting a bi-pod and that stock (like my Tyrolean version) looks like it could accommodate a stud at the front which is nice for some long range bunny bashing.
BAR have a great reputation among shooters ,i was speaking to Lloyd a couple of weeks ago and he was very helpful.
rb
Ahhh, I thought the 500CC was standard. I meant to say looking at the picture, it looks like a smaller bottle (than the rapid Mk II below).
It's a beautiful gun. I think I'm sold, I just need to raise the funds before someone else nabs it. :)
I was wondering about a sling, what's the problem with a barrel band?
rapidboy
29-04-05, 10:19 PM
Rapid barrels are strong enough to carry the gun and i carried mine this way for years with out causing any damage ,but a lot of people tend to use the sling as an aid for standing shots by twisting their arm through it.
This tensions everything and helps steady your aim ,fine if the sling is attached to the stock but tensioning against the barrel can pull the barrel down and change the point of impact.
Even if the barrel is not pulled ,tensioning it will effect the barrel harmonics and can still effect the shot.
I wasn't sure about this theory but a range session at the club where we applied tension through a barrel mounted sling proved the point.
rb
Celtic Dragon
29-04-05, 10:26 PM
Martyn, the Rapids barrel is fixed at the breech only. If you attach a sling to this, the weight of the rifle being slung will flex the barrel.
I have to agree, for simplicity I do like the rapid mk1. I however do have a BSA super10 (heavily modded) and a Daystate Harrier mk which I am having reg'ed by Airmasters.
I don't find a fixed airtube a major hassle when hunting, for me to empty the harrier I'd have to lose off 60 odd shots.
PS_Bond
29-04-05, 10:31 PM
Mutter, mutter, Air Arms S410K...
:)
Celtic Dragon
29-04-05, 10:39 PM
What about them :P :D
and means you could turn up the power (FAC required) if you feel the need later.
I hadn't really thought about going this route, I just wanted a good, solid, accurate, reliable gun that will see me through a decade of service, for all kinds of stuff from the odd bit of bunny bashing, to plinking in the garden.
But that's nice to know, if I do get into it at a deeper level, a FAC might be on the cards.
Would theoben convert it - what's the cost for upping it to 30 ft/lbs? Can that be done even if it runs on 280cc bottles?
Celtic Dragon
29-04-05, 11:39 PM
Yes they would up it to an FAC. I'm not sure about the cost.
IMHO it wouldn't be worth while going fac on a 280cc as you'd get sod all shots. 30ft/lb requires alot of air.
Yes they would up it to an FAC. I'm not sure about the cost.
IMHO it wouldn't be worth while going fac on a 280cc as you'd get sod all shots. 30ft/lb requires alot of air.
Hmmm, prolly have to have that regulator fitted as well.
I was looking at theobens site and the FAC version of the mfr with the 280cc bottle puts out 60 shots at 30 ft/lbs. I appreciate this is regulated and the MkI isn't, but that seems like a good number of shots for that power and bottle size.
Look..
http://www.theoben.co.uk/customer/product.php?productid=62
Celtic Dragon
30-04-05, 12:01 AM
Ok, its been a fair while since I looked at theobens, but I know that the early mk 2's were de-regulated to get fac power levels.
Your right though, 60 shots at 30ft/lbs is very good of a 280cc.
rapidboy
30-04-05, 12:24 AM
12ft/lbs gun can go up to around 24-26 ft/lbs but to get 30 you need a longer barrel.
Theoben will do either conversion.
The standard is a nice compact gun and lot's of people are happy to run them at 24 with the handling advantages - it's also cheaper than replacing the barrel.
Mine is a Super7 model and came from the factory with the longer barrel.
People get obsessed with having the most powerful airgun they can have but what most people don't realise is that these guns are produced in relatively small quantities and are still set up individually.
Each gun is slightly different ,one might run at 27 another runs at 29 another at 31 but it's what the factory has set each individual gun at to be consistent and accurate.
I know some shooters that are happier to have their 27 ft/lbs gun tuned up to 30ft/lbs even though the consistency suffers just so they have a more powerful gun !?!?
A rabbit can't tell if it's been hit with 27 or 31 ft/lbs but you do need to hit it !
A 280cc bottle would really need a reg to run FAC.
My unregulated Mk1 ,12ft/lbs gun in .22 gave around 250 shots.
My FAC rapid gives around 25 shots from the same 400cc bottle.
My FAC gun seems very thirsty if you compare that to the figures quoted on the Theoben site but i run all my guns over a chronograph and that's what mine is doing.
You can improve things if you feel the need but in reality you don't need hundreds of shots for hunting ,25 rabbits weigh a lot.
Only way to know what a gun is really doing is run it over a chrono ,record the information over a full fill and shoot some groups.
rb
Buccaneer
30-04-05, 10:03 PM
Like others have mentioned, I bought a Rohm pistol and very nice it is too. To pump it up I use a Hill hand pump. It takes around 60 pumps to get it upto 200Bar.
The Daystate Mk3 is lovelly, handled one over the weekend, but I've decided to go for the X2 version, maybe the new sports model when I can get to hold one.
Paul
Well I finally got it. Infact I changed my mind in the end and got an Air Arms S410 instead.
My choice was influenced by the lack of availability of the Daystate and reading good reviews on the BBS site, not to mention it being a bank holiday weekend and I wanted a new toy to play with. :D
Nice rifle, spent most of the day in the garden shooting targets and setting up the scope, the accuracy is fantastic. Garden allows me to shoot at 25 yards so I guess this would be expected, can't wait to try it out over longer distances.
Also got a 300 Bar bottle as well, makes filling so much easier.
Paul
Buccaneer
30-04-05, 10:07 PM
Forgot to ask,
Have asked this question on BBS but would like to ask the shooters on here aswell
When transporting your bottle around in the car is it the Law that you have to have one of those " Compressed Air on Board" stickes on the back of the car, and secondly, whats the best thing to carry the thing in. I was thinking of one of those "Cool Bags" or what ever they are called to keep the bottle cool when left in the car boot on a hot summers day.
Paul
PS_Bond
30-04-05, 10:15 PM
It is only law under HSE to display the compressed gas stickers if you are carrying bottles in a work capacity...
As for transporting bottles, get a large, flat piece of ply and tie the things to it to stop them rolling. Oh, and always make sure the valves are pointing backwards. ;) Don't worry about warm cars, look at the test pressures on the bottles vs the normal working pressure.
Pleased to hear you bought an S410 BTW, I need the company :D LMK if you hit any magazine cycling problems - I've heard of them, but never experienced any.
mojofilter
30-04-05, 10:44 PM
That Air Arms S200 that Hellz keeps posting pictures of is giving me that butterfly / churning feeling in my belly that usually leads to a purchase! :) From what I can make out, they are pretty highly regarded, and there is a 10 shot mag conversion available too.
How much would I need to budget in for a bottle with all the guages and hoses etc...... Would £150 cover it?
Must resist, must resist :D
Buccaneer
30-04-05, 11:45 PM
Pleased to hear you bought an S410 BTW, I need the company :D LMK if you hit any magazine cycling problems - I've heard of them, but never experienced any.
When cocking the rifle I was told to always have the butt against your body, either on the shoulder if not moving the rifle from shooting position or against the upper arm at the elbow joint and make sure you have your thumb on the otherside of the bolt to ensure you pull it out straight.
Theres a definate two stages to the pull after the initial slack take-up. I think thats where people have been having problems. They pull back the bolt and having gone through the first stage they think the gun is cocked and push the bolt back. That last stage is perhaps just another 1/16" - 1/8" away.
Paul
Well I think you have all finally given me the bug! :mad: :D I thought torches and knives were addictive. But with these you get to ultimately test your hand eye co-ordination as well. Well that’s my excuse anyway and I’m sticking to it! :lol:
After getting all my replies back from the dealers on the Steyr LP50 pistol I am ready to buy one! But I also think I want a rifle to go with it! :rolleyes:
Trouble is I like high tech shiny stuff. But you already knew that. :lol:
What would you rate as the most technical air rifle of the moment? I have been reading up on the field target hardware and have made a list! If you think I am way off the mark (cough) please add your suggestions. These are all real standard air rifles; we should leave the imaginary or future stuff for another list.
1.) Daystate MKIII FT (With the multishot mag for plinking fun as well) :) I think this is probably the most technically advanced due to all the electronics. http://www.daystate.co.uk/mk3.htm
2.) Steyr LG100 FT or the soon to be released new LG110 FT. These seem to do rather well in the FT comps especially in the USA. Plus the styling looks particularly awesome. Supposed to have one of the very best trigger mechanisms available as it evolved from a true 10m Olympic rifle. http://www.steyr-sportwaffen.com/nav.php?lang=en&sektion=gewehre&subsektion=fieldtarget
3.) Walter Dominator FT. Almost impervious to the British weather due to the construction. Which is probably a plus. http://www.carl-walther.de/englisch/sport/sport-54.html
4.) Air Arms EV2. New kid on the block! http://www.air-arms.co.uk/EV2.htm
But if you bought one of the above you would also need a scope to go with it!
So another list ensues: -
a.) Leupold VXIII 6.5-20x40 EFR Fine Duplex or the same from Premier Reticles fitted with a Gen 2 Mil-Dot http://www.leupold.com/products/Info_Air_Rifle.htm
b.) Nikko Stirling Diamond/BSA Platinum 10-50x60 with mil-dot reticle and sidewheel parallax http://www.nikkostirling.com/content_pages/diamond_sportsman.htm
c.) Nikko Stirling Sniper/Diamond Sportsman 6-24x42 with mil-dot reticle and sidewheel parallax. This seems more popular for HFT comps. http://www.nikkostirling.com/content_pages/diamond_sportsman.htm
d.) Deben/Hawke (Hakko) High Mag F.T. 6-26x56 with Mil-Dot reticle and sidewheel http://www.hakko-japan.co.jp/optical/english/target.htm
I imagine that every one of the above choices has its good and bad points. Other things like ease of spares and possibly the resale value are important to.
Any more ideas? I am really into the spirit of this as you can see! Help. :lol:
Thanks
Mark
Celtic Dragon
01-05-05, 11:30 AM
That Air Arms S200 that Hellz keeps posting pictures of is giving me that butterfly / churning feeling in my belly that usually leads to a purchase! :) From what I can make out, they are pretty highly regarded, and there is a 10 shot mag conversion available too.
How much would I need to budget in for a bottle with all the guages and hoses etc...... Would £150 cover it?
Must resist, must resist :D
MJ, the S200 is a cracking little gun. Unfortunatly having played with the prototype and the production model, I have to say there have been a few comprimises made, but it works and well. 1 won the junior UKHFT in the first year it ran, not a bad accolade is it?
I can't comment on cost of a rig as I've been out of it for too long, (although I still have all my gear)
Sunraven
01-05-05, 04:00 PM
Cones I have an Air Arms pro target ( precursor to the EV2) which I am very happy with I cannot really comment on the rifles you selected as they are all well out of my price range lol. The pro target was £300 second hand and is good enough for me I can consistently hit the 40mm targets at 55 yards and the 25mm at 55 yards most of the time.
For a scope I have the Nikko 10-50x60 you listed with the mil dot ret and I am more than happy with it for the price. It is about £360 ish and if you want to do FT you need a high mag scope and the Nikko is about the best you can get for that price range without going up to something like a Leupold and a high mag Leupold will cost about a grand.
Looking at the pics of your garden though, you may have problems shooting towards the house at the end, this could come under a public nuisance. I found some brief info here (http://website.lineone.net/~triggerfish/gunlaw.htm) but there are others much more suited than I to answer this one.
DANZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D
I also saw the picture and could see a problem shooting towards the neighbours house......They could have justification to make a Police complaint (Public Order Act) if they felt that aggrieved :(
If you interfere with your neighbours right to 'enjoy' their property then they can sue you in the tort of nuisance. If they win they will most likely get a civil law remedy, an injunction, against you which orders you to stop doing the nuisance. Breaching an injunction becomes a criminal offence.
As Kevin says you may also be guilty of a Public Order Act offence.
Or the firearms boys might just shoot you........
:O
Danzo
Great! thanks for cheering up my sunday afternoon! :lol:
Nothing to stop me shooting indoors though!
Does that mean I can complain about the builders 3 doors down spoiling my quiet Sunday afternoon with their noise? Gits!
Mark
rapidboy
01-05-05, 04:14 PM
What would you rate as the most technical air rifle of the moment? I have been reading up on the field target hardware and have made a list! If you think I am way off the mark (cough) please add your suggestions. These are all real standard air rifles; we should leave the imaginary or future stuff for another list.
1.) Daystate MKIII FT (With the multishot mag for plinking fun as well) :) I think this is probably the most technically advanced due to all the electronics. http://www.daystate.co.uk/mk3.htm
2.) Steyr LG100 FT or the soon to be released new LG110 FT. These seem to do rather well in the FT comps especially in the USA. Plus the styling looks particularly awesome. Supposed to have one of the very best trigger mechanisms available as it evolved from a true 10m Olympic rifle. http://www.steyr-sportwaffen.com/nav.php?lang=en&sektion=gewehre&subsektion=fieldtarget
3.) Walter Dominator FT. Almost impervious to the British weather due to the construction. Which is probably a plus. http://www.carl-walther.de/englisch/sport/sport-54.html
4.) Air Arms EV2. New kid on the block! http://www.air-arms.co.uk/EV2.htm
But if you bought one of the above you would also need a scope to go with it!
So another list ensues: -
a.) Leupold VXIII 6.5-20x40 EFR Fine Duplex or the same from Premier Reticles fitted with a Gen 2 Mil-Dot http://www.leupold.com/products/Info_Air_Rifle.htm
b.) Nikko Stirling Diamond/BSA Platinum 10-50x60 with mil-dot reticle and sidewheel parallax http://www.nikkostirling.com/content_pages/diamond_sportsman.htm
c.) Nikko Stirling Sniper/Diamond Sportsman 6-24x42 with mil-dot reticle and sidewheel parallax. This seems more popular for HFT comps. http://www.nikkostirling.com/content_pages/diamond_sportsman.htm
d.) Deben/Hawke (Hakko) High Mag F.T. 6-26x56 with Mil-Dot reticle and sidewheel http://www.hakko-japan.co.jp/optical/english/target.htm
I imagine that every one of the above choices has its good and bad points. Other things like ease of spares and possibly the resale value are important to.
Any more ideas? I am really into the spirit of this as you can see! Help. :lol:
Thanks
Mark
The Mk3 is probably the most advanced but despite what the factory will tell you they have had some problems.
I know several people who shoot them and they have been trouble free but i know that several failed at the World FT championships last year and i was shooting with a guy who's had his pack in when it rained (it was chucking it down actually).
The factory repaired that gun but blamed him for tampering with the gun which i know was nonsense.
I had paid a deposit on one because they are so nice to shoot but i decided against it as i didn't want a load of hassle.
The Steyr is the dog's dangly bit's.
Accurate ,reliable and balances beautifully.
This is the gun you NEED. :D
The Dominator is an accurate gun but you should really try before you buy because they are very heavy (i don't get on with them and it's all down to the weight.)
EV2 ,The next step for the old Pro Target.
Best trigger in the business ,accurate and these balance well.
I still prefer the old cocking and loading system.
Leupold VXIII 6.5-20x40 EFR ,Nice scope (as is every Loop) but i only kept mine for about a week.
I don't like the parallex ring on these as you have to rotate it twice and that can get a little confusing in a competition.
Mag is a little low for accurate range finding.
Nikko Stirling Diamond/BSA Platinum 10-50x60 with mil-dot reticle and sidewheel parallax - Not bad but not top quality optics.
They work ok and do win competitions but build quality is not up there with the Leupold's - about the best value FT scope's at the moment.
Nikko Stirling Sniper/Diamond Sportsman 6-24x42 with mil-dot reticle and sidewheel parallax - Same quality as above and not enough mag for range finding.
Deben/Hawke (Hakko) High Mag F.T. 6-26x56 with Mil-Dot reticle and sidewheel - Better quality IMO than the Nikko's or BSA's but lacks mag.
If you are prepared to buy second hand you could look for an old TASCO Custom Shop 8- 40 x 56 or 10 -50 x56.
Well built (but not a loop) but these are proven FT scopes and have the mag for range finding.
I have had 2 8-40 x 56 and they worked very well.
I didn't like the turrets so sold them but they did the job very well.
I would suggest a modified Leupold.
If you want a Leupold for FT contact Nick Jenkinson in the UK or Dick Thomas at Premier Reticules in the US direct.
They convert a Leupold VX-III 8.5-25x50mm Long Range Target model with a 30mm tube and this is about the best you can get for FT.
They boost the mag to 20 - 50 X 50 and add a custom reticule (basically dots on the horizontal cross hair to give reference points for aiming off in the wind)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/416_1683_1.jpg
They add an enlarged side wheel ,re set the parallex to around 65 yds and added a close focus adaptor lens mounted in a flip up scope cover.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/416_1672_1.jpg
You use the close focus adaptor for targets under 25 yds.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/416_1688_1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/416_1685_1.jpg
Standing shots in the wind with your scope set on 50 mag are horrible :(
New these are around £1100 and second hand they get around £700-800.
Or if you dont want a side wheel then the Burris 8-32 is good (needs to be the airgun model as you cant adjust the Parallex).
Again i sold mine and kept the big Leupold simply because it "wasn't a Leupold". ;)
rb
Does that mean I can complain about the builders 3 doors down spoiling my quiet Sunday afternoon with their noise? Gits!
Mark
Just keeping you legal Mark!
;)
If it happens more than once then yes! Nuisance in general has to be an ongoing state of affairs but there are normally local restictions on Sunday building work as well.
Danzo
Thanks Danzo! You also keep us entertained. All be it in a slightly worrying go directly to prison or get shot kind of way. :lol:
fb.
Thanks for all that glorious information. I was looking at the premier site earlier today. Your particular setup is not listed but now I know what to ask for. :lol:
I like the Steyr LG100 / LG110, be nice to have one to go with the LP50 pistol I am going to order next week! Plus it looks a lot more Target than Tactical, which in my book is a bonus.
Shame about the Daystate issues. I suppose if you have a good un, it’s the best thing since sliced bread!
I could also shoot down the garden towards my house that should resolve any issue with the neighbours. I am not going to set out to annoy them. Or more importantly endanger them.
I intend to make my targets as quiet as possible as hitting a steel target backstop with a 5 shot semi-automatic pistol is bound to draw undue attention!
I am also going to go and visit the local club. Although this would be more if I decide to go with a rifle in the future and want to have a go at the FT stuff.
Thanks all so far. Sorry for Hijacking the thread to my own ends! But it is all still related to the original title. Hopefully we are all learning from it!
Mark
Mutter, mutter, Air Arms S410K...
:)
I'm an S410 fan... ;)
http://hellzteeth.com/images/Gallery%20Images/S410plus.JPG
Air Arms S410 Classic, .177, Walnut Thumbhole stock, Air Arms Silencer, Bushnell ScopeChief 3-9*40 (nice scope...)
Hellz
Lordy, that is a lovely gun, Hellz.
That stock is beautiful.
That is a beautiful gun Hellz, is that stock a custom?
Do you want to sell it? :D
To be honest, the only thing I dont like about the Rapids is they are butt-ugly. I did think that it doesnt matter, but it does. I'm tempted by the AA S410 classic simply because they are so much prettier.
C02 guns are good 'fun' but not all that effective. For rabbits I would suggest something that is likely to be much more humane, like a full legal limit spring rifle. Anything from makers like BSA or Weirauch will provide you with a much more appropriate tool.
Have a look for something like the BSA Lightning and see if that appeals, it has a good reputation and shouldn't break the bank (although I haven't bought an air rifle for quite sometime...)
HTH,
Hellz
Thats exactly what I've done Hellz, a kind member here offered me one at a very reasonable price indeed, we're just finalising details at the moment.
That is a beautiful gun Hellz, is that stock a custom?
Do you want to sell it? :D
Thank you, stock is a standard Air Arms Thumbhole... however ;) I did send my original stock back as I wasn't happy with the chequering (one side was a bit lopsided) and that is the one I got in return :D It pays to speak up sometimes :lol:
As for your second question... No thank you ;)
The Air Arms are great guns though, and I'd certainly recommend them. Accuracy is very impressive, and that's with me behind the trigger...:rolleyes:
Theoben Rapids are of course great guns, if you get past the fact that it looks like an air rifle humping a fire extinguisher...
I've got a custom version of BSA's "rifle/fire extinguisher love child" The super 10
http://hellzteeth.com/images/Gallery%20Images/stalker1.JPG
Stalker Rifles "Tiger Ten" Carbine, .22, Walnut Stock, Bull barrel.
Gurthang
02-05-05, 03:12 PM
In my opinion the S410 is the best allround airrifle around although I dont have on because I cant spend that much money on an airrifle when I can buy a rimfire for less. I have an Air Arms TX200 carbine which is really good and I would highly recomend.
and a quick question, why such big scopes for FT shooting with, I have a simmons 3-9*40 on my TX200 and I was shhoting targets at 60yds with that once and with it wound right up to 9 I could see my pulse in it so surely in an FT situation a scope wound up to 20 or more with no rest is going to be really unsteady. Also when I soot with a .243 its only a fixed 6* scope on that and thats at ranges up to 200 yds
rapidboy
02-05-05, 03:38 PM
and a quick question, why such big scopes for FT shooting with, I have a simmons 3-9*40 on my TX200 and I was shhoting targets at 60yds with that once and with it wound right up to 9 I could see my pulse in it so surely in an FT situation a scope wound up to 20 or more with no rest is going to be really unsteady. Also when I soot with a .243 its only a fixed 6* scope on that and thats at ranges up to 200 yds
You need big magnification to range find.
FT shooters use the parallex adjustment to find the range and then dial in accordingly.
The bigger mag's work better than smaller mag's.
I never use more than 9 mag on my rimfires and 20 max on full bores but FT airguns are low powered and have quite a curved trajectory so your range finding needs to be spot on.
A lot of shooters wind down the mag to take the shot but some (myself included) take the shot at full mag.
I shoot at 50 mag ,the reason is that it takes a lot of effort to control and slow your heart rate and your breathing and the 50 mag only stops shaking when you are really steady and in control.
Gurthang
02-05-05, 03:42 PM
thanks rapidboy, makes sense now I think about it.
Any opinions on the Daystate Mk3 sport?
Celtic Dragon
02-05-05, 04:28 PM
I'd say the Harrier X is a better bet. I'm still not 100% sure about the electronics, and you certainly don't want them failing in the field.
rapidboy
02-05-05, 04:38 PM
Any opinions on the Daystate Mk3 sport?
Lovely gun ,just unpacked and checked one at the weekend with a really nice walnut thumbhole stock.
Great gun but they can stop working when they get wet. :mad:
I was going to buy one but decided against it after 2 of my friends had a lot of trouble with them.
One replaced with a Steyr LG100 for FT and the other replaced his with a Ripley XL9 for hunting ,both lost a lot of money changing.
Others i know have no trouble but they seem a bit hit and miss.
It's quite a contraversial sublect on the airgun forums but i have been shooting along one when it stopped working and the Rapid's and S410's kept going.
Regarding the S410's ,my club have a few as club guns and they have been used and abused for several years at the club and game fairs as "have a go rifles".
They never miss a beat and this is about as hard a life as a gun can get.
Several of my friends shoot them and they have had very few problems with them BUT recently (last 6 months) the AA QC seems to have gone and there have been quite a few problems with them.
So many problems that my mate has stopped selling them (he own's a gun shop) and now recommends the Daystate Harriers.
rb
Do I get the distinct feeling that a few of us are wanting to buy various air powered devices! :D
Is this for hunting, HFT, FT or just general plinking and paper punching?
I have decided that I would also like rifle but will wait until I have put a few thousands pellets through my pistol. But I know I have got the bug. :mad: Thanks to all of you! :D :D
Mark
MotorbikeMan
02-05-05, 06:57 PM
I really, really wish I had never sold my rifles now, I had an Original 66 for target shooting and an tweeked underlever Diana (can't remember the exact model) for hunting.
Why oh why did I ever sell them :C
Do I get the distinct feeling that a few of us are wanting to buy various air powered devices! :D
Is this for hunting, HFT, FT or just general plinking and paper punching?
I have decided that I would also like rifle but will wait until I have put a few thousands pellets through my pistol. But I know I have got the bug. :mad: Thanks to all of you! :D :D
Mark
Likewise! There's going to be a few less pigeons & rabbits flying/running round the forest near Perth this summer......hopefully;)
I think this thread should be a sticky.
Thoughts?
Danzo
MotorbikeMan
02-05-05, 08:00 PM
I think this thread should be a sticky.
Thoughts?
Danzo
gets my vote
Good Idea! :biggthump
Let entrap lots of other unsuspecting forumites into this wonderful world of shiny stuff! :D :D
Mark
Good idea, consider it done!
mojofilter
03-05-05, 10:57 PM
Does anyone have any opinions on whether or not it is a good idea to spend a considerable amount on a PCP setup right now, particularly with all the pre election promises / threats that are being banded around?
I would be most dissapointed to spend 600 odd quid for a nice setup, only for it to become illegal in a few months. :mad:
Would the airgun dealers be forced to hand over details of who has bought what so that they could be confiscated?
rapidboy
03-05-05, 11:20 PM
Does anyone have any opinions on whether or not it is a good idea to spend a considerable amount on a PCP setup right now, particularly with all the pre election promises / threats that are being banded around?
I would be most dissapointed to spend 600 odd quid for a nice setup, only for it to become illegal in a few months. :mad:
Would the airgun dealers be forced to hand over details of who has bought what so that they could be confiscated?
I dont really follow the new's so i dont know what has been promised or threatened.
Is a change expected ?
mojofilter
03-05-05, 11:26 PM
I dont really follow the new's so i dont know what has been promised or threatened.
Is a change expected ?
I have seen THIS (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/scotland/4503595.stm) for starters, along with some tabloid sensationalism! :mad:
Does anyone have any opinions on whether or not it is a good idea to spend a considerable amount on a PCP setup right now, particularly with all the pre election promises / threats that are being banded around?
I would be most dissapointed to spend 600 odd quid for a nice setup, only for it to become illegal in a few months. :mad:
Would the airgun dealers be forced to hand over details of who has bought what so that they could be confiscated?
Your friend and mine, the knee-jerk, jerk himself, Mr Charles Clarke, wants to win a labour victory on Thursday, with yet another example of tabloid politics. :rolleyes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/scotland/4503595.stm
Mr Clarke said no option was ruled out - including a complete ban - but it is thought a more likely outcome is a strict licensing system.
He said: "We are looking at licensing and we are looking at an outright ban.
"We have to find something that is practical.
I'm not sure an outright ban is seroisly being considered, but more a question of putting all airguns on FAC only or something similar.
If that is the case and it actually happens, just apply for a FAC, along with the several million others who will be applying.
I have seen THIS (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/scotland/4503595.stm) for starters, along with some tabloid sensationalism! :mad:
Oops, snap. :D
rapidboy
03-05-05, 11:36 PM
:mad:
The firearm law's in Northern Ireland differ from those in the rest of the UK in two main area's.
1 - we still have fullbore pistols.
2 - a FAC is required for ALL airgun's and pistols.
The licencing of airgun's here is very frustrating and restrictive ,it it does have some positive point's..... just not many.
I've been using an S400 for 2 years now, and it's been an excellent gun. Granted, it was bought because it looks good, but it has done everything it should do and some.
I bought a second hand divers bottle from a scuba shop for £80 and a regulator for about £40. So the total price wasn't so scary.
I get about 80 full power shots per re-fill, that,s plenty for a full day in the field.
Cheers,
ronan
I think we're safe shooting air guns for a few more years. They are far to busy trying to make us buy straight bananas by the Kilo. :(
mojofilter
03-05-05, 11:40 PM
:mad:
The firearm law's in Northern Ireland differ from those in the rest of the UK in two main area's.
1 - we still have fullbore pistols.
2 - a FAC is required for ALL airgun's and pistols.
The licencing of airgun's here is very frustrating and restrictive ,it it does have some positive point's..... just not many.
That probably puts you in a better position than the rest of us RB!
Celtic Dragon
03-05-05, 11:44 PM
Well if they do to rifles, what they did to my Brococks, then I'm stuffed. I live in rented accomodation and the landlord won't let me install a gun cabinet. Another knee jerk reaction leeding to the persicution of the law abiding.
I had to sell my brocock, and now may have to sell up on the rifles too. Less than chuffing happy.
rapidboy
04-05-05, 08:42 PM
Guy's I just spotted this for sale over on the airgunBBS.
Lovely looking stock for a S410 by Paul Wilson.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/paulwilsonstock1a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/paulwilsonstock2a.jpg
For more pic's and details http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65822
I dont know the guy who's selling this and i have no interest in the sale but i know that a lot of people on here like S410's and this is a cracking stock and cheap at £220.
rb
I have a few air guns , an AR5 and an AirArms S410...but this one is my pride and joy....and probably one of the best springers around (uses two interposing springs which balances the recoil)...
http://216.46.248.210/pixc/coutel/whiscombe.jpg
A Whiscombe ..JW 65 Mk2......Currently set up with .22 barrel and hunting stock...but I also have a spare .177 and top grade FT stock.
I use this regularly when I have to cull rodents .......I could use a centre or rim fire, but this is more efficient and doesnt scare the rest away.......It currently pumps out at 23 fp..so in the UK would need a FAC..though it can be de tuned to shoot 12 fp if necessary....oh, and not cheap :O ..This one is serial number 010.
Celtic Dragon
05-05-05, 01:49 AM
and not cheap :O ..This one is serial number 010.
You lucky git Coutel :D thats lovely, their beautifull rifles, and a joy to shoot.
You lucky, lucky man, and such a low serial number!!!!
Went into a local shop today and handled a few of the top contenders. The daystate X2 is a lovely looking and beautifully made gun but just didnt feel right somehow, the 410 is sweet too, it just jumps into your hand and feels nice (I tried the 410 TDR and that surprised me, quality item), but the theoben mfr sang to me. I think it was the lightest of those I handled too, very deceptive as it looks a real hunk of a gun. It came up nice and sat into my shoulder well. I didn't feel like I was hunching over it (which I did with the daystate to be honest). I think if all things were equal, the mfr felt the best in my hands and I loved the simple, robust, but precise engineering of it.
Things arent equal though, the huge shot capacity and buddy bottle convenience of the mfr is really attractive to me, but equally, the phenominal value for money of the 410 series cant be ignored.
I think the mfr is like a sebenza, overpriced, but has that "does what it says on the tin" quality that sucks you in.
Ahhhh, decisions.
I came out with a cheap(ish) 3.5-9x42, illum mil dot scope. :lol:
rapidboy
05-05-05, 06:24 PM
Ahhhh, decisions.
Easy one ,THEOBEN :D
Just to stir the pot a little more. :)
http://www.airgunbuyer.com/webnews.asp?ID=317
New Theoben SLR98 .177 cal
Taking pre orders.
Looks good for gas ram multi shot.
Mark
rapidboy
05-05-05, 07:01 PM
Just to stir the pot a little more. :)
http://www.airgunbuyer.com/webnews.asp?ID=317
New Theoben SLR98 .177 cal
Taking pre orders.
Looks good for gas ram multi shot.
Mark
Any idea how many shot's ???
I think the .22 version uses the rapid 7 mag so all things being equal it could use the Rapid 17 mag giving 17 shots. I hope anyway!
Reasonable money as well!
Don't tempt me. I'm saving up for that new Steyr LG110 FT! :lol:
Mark
rapidboy
05-05-05, 07:19 PM
The .22 version uses a similar mag to the rapid 7 but the 17 mag is much bigger (same size as .22 12 shot) so it wont fit in the action.
I'd be interested to know if they are making a lower capacity .177 mag as it would solve a lot of problems with the .177 rapid's.
rb
To stir the pot even further, what are the relative merits of .22 v .177?
I've read on the airgunbbs that a lot of folks with rapids go for the .177, why?
Are the .177 Rapids a bit iffy then? Does the mag jam up or something?
Just interested as I am narrowing down my rifle list. :)
Currently
1.) Steyr LG110 (Boo. No Multishot mag)
2.) Daystate MK3 FT with Multishot mag
3.) Theoben MFR .177
4.) Theoben Rapid 17 .177
5.) Air Arms EV2
Thanks
Mark
To stir the pot even further, what are the relative merits of .22 v .177?
Arrrgh! :lol:
This was (probably still is) THE main argument of the airgun world.
.177 Higher velocity, flatter trajectory, possible over penertration
.22 Slower velocity, arced trajectory, more 'stopping power'
There was a sort of recomendation a while ago: .177 for feather, .22 for fur. Don't know if that's still mentioned or not.
For target, definitely .177...
The hardcore shooters will be able to give you more insightful answers I'm sure :D
Hellz
rapidboy
05-05-05, 07:41 PM
Used to be a saying .177 for feather and .22 for fur.
.177 is flying faster and flatter than .22 ,hence it's use in FT and HFT as range finding is less critical.
.22 has more knock down power and less problem with "over penetration" for hunting.
With PCP's the .22 is more efficient and gives more shot's per fill than a .177
In FAC gun's the .177's are not as powerfull as .22's.
The .20 and .25 calibers have bigger pellet choices now than ever before but are still not as popular as .177 and .22
There are a few 9mm airguns and other large calibre guns around but pellet choice is limited.
I have hunted with a .177 but still prefer a .22
Best thing is to practice and get to know your gun / scope / pellet combination and it's trajectory regardless of calibre as a well placed shot is the most important thing.
rb
Forgot to mention that with a precharged rifle you will get less shots in .177 than .22. For example my S410 .177 get upto 75 full power shots, but the .22 version gets upto 100.
Apparently it takes more air to get the smaller, lighter .177 pellet upto speed.
HTH
Hellz
I understand the target v hunting argument. I really want a .22 as I will be using the rifle for hunting, but what was/is confusing me, is why so many people buy a hunting rifle (the rapid) in a target shooters calibre?
I know that the rapid makes a good FT gun as well, but if your thing is FT, they I would think you would buy an FT gun, rather than a hunter that can turn it's hand???
I was wondering if there are some issues with the rapids in .22, I've also heard that the .20 rapids are a nice compromise, but I've also heard that the rapids in .20 can be a bit pellet fussy.
Apparently it takes more air to get the smaller, lighter .177 pellet upto speed.
I think the smaller bore size might offer some resistance too.
rapidboy
05-05-05, 07:47 PM
:D Hellz has beat me to it.
Cones ,no problem with .17 rapid mags functioning.
The 7 shot rapid mag fit's into the action from the RHS but the 12 shot and 17 shot mags are physically larger and fit into the action from the LHS.
For FT shooters this is often a problem as they use side wheel paralexing scopes with large wheels fitted and this prevents using a 17 shot mag.
A single shot adaptor can be made but it would be nice to have a smaller .177 mag that could be fitted from the RHS.
The mags in the SLR are almost identical to the rapid mags with the addition of a second "lug" so it should be possible to make a low capacity rapid mag if they make one for the SLR.
Thanks. :)
Does not help narrow down my choices though. I can see me taking a trip to Blackpool in the future. I think I need to see these in the flesh so to speak.
Mark
rapidboy
05-05-05, 09:13 PM
Martyn ,Rapid's can be pellet fussy but when you find what pellet they lik ethey are great.
If anything .177's seem to be fussier.
My FAC .22 rapid likes Bisley Magnums.
My 12ft/lbs .22 and .177 both liked Crossman Premiers and most seem to be the same.
They don't seem to like the AA or Daystate pellets.
A friend converted his .22 to .20 and swears by it.
The reason people FT rapids (and i did for a short time) is that they use a simple knock open valve rather than a complex and unreliable regulator and they are lighter than a lot of the target gun's.
Thanks. :)
Does not help narrow down my choices though. I can see me taking a trip to Blackpool in the future. I think I need to see these in the flesh so to speak.
Mark
Did this today Mark (not Bar, just the local shop) and I can definitely say it's worthwhile. For example, the daystate was high on my list, but having played with one today, I'm able to write it off as the wrong choice for me. It just didn't seem to suit me, though the version with the thumbhole stock was much more comfy. The gun is superbly built though and I may have bought one on recommendation alone.
I also discovered I like the mfr very much in the flesh.
Well worth the visit - just dont take your cheque book. :D
I think it definitely helps to have a very clear picture of what you want from the gun, the scenarios it will need to fill and shortlist according to how well it fits your criteria. I have to admit, I admire your strength in shortlisting pure-bred FT guns though Mark. I would never have the courage to spend that kind of money on something so ugly. :lol:
Martyn, Thanks for the comments.
Yes I know what you mean about the FT hardware. The Daystate MK3 FT looks a lot better than the Steyr. But The Steyr looks likes you can adjust every single aspect of the rifle. Going to be a hard choice. :P But Fun.
I have to wait for my LP50 pistol. :( No UK stock at the moment.
This is not helping as I am now ready to buy a rifle while I am waiting. :O :lol: I WANT TO SHOOT AT TARGETS! :mad:
As the Steyr LG110 is not actually available yet, this is probably a GOOD thing.
I like the idea of the MK3 10 shot mag though. More fun for 10m plinking at targets and stuff.
Plus a rifle will need a scope. After Rapidboy's comments I like the Leupold but want one that works at 10m but does not cost £1100. The EFR type still appeals as I don't think I would shoot FT or HFT comps seriously. If I did then the super scope may be in order. I could get the Leupold VX-III 6.5X-20X 40MM AO/EFR TARG MATTE GEN 2 for $798 US from http://www.premierreticles.com/catalog/index.php?file=catalog&action=catalog_productinfo&uid=5465&clist=0,51202,51203&pi_id=132016 This would cover everything I need for the immediate future and I should not loose too much when upgrading.
Mark
rapidboy
06-05-05, 08:24 AM
After Rapidboy's comments I like the Leupold but want one that works at 10m but does not cost £1100. The EFR type still appeals as I don't think I would shoot FT or HFT comps seriously. If I did then the super scope may be in order. I could get the Leupold VX-III 6.5X-20X 40MM AO/EFR TARG MATTE GEN 2 for $798 US from http://www.premierreticles.com/catalog/index.php?file=catalog&action=catalog_productinfo&uid=5465&clist=0,51202,51203&pi_id=132016 This would cover everything I need for the immediate future and I should not loose too much when upgrading.
Mark
Mark ,Dont let me put you off the Leupold VX-III 6.5X-20X 40MM AO/EFR ,it is a great scope (a real classic) it just didnt suit me for what i was doing.
I know guy's who will use nothing else.
As Martyn say's it's worth physically examining the gun's you "short list" as often what looks good on paper will simply not "fit" you.
Really the best thing to do is find a FT club near you and go along.
FT guy's are into gun's and scopes the way guy's on here are into knives and are usually very happy to talk about and let you try out their kit.
......Really the best thing to do is find a FT club near you and go along.
.......
Totaly agree.
Dont be fooled into thinking that the more you spend on a airgun, the better you will shoot..........it doesnt happen like that. :)
In the right hands, an airgun like a AirArms S410 will be just accurate as any other high end pcp........
I know of at least one guy who can perform better at FT with a springer than many can with a high end pcp. :)
Thanks all. :)
I am not rushing into anything! I hope. :lol:
Mark
Sunraven
06-05-05, 06:57 PM
I spent £300 on my FT rifle. It is an Air Arms Pro Target and it fits me well and I enjoy shooting it and thats the main thing. I couldn't afford one of the newer FT rifles either ;) A couple of things I want to get are a palm rest and butt hook but not been able to shoot for a while.
When I get back to shooting again I may get an S400 for HFT as that is another rifle I have tried and liked the fit. I have used the pro target for one HFT shoot and enjoyed it though it is a little heavy when doing some shots but I didn't do badly (wasn't in the comp, one team was short so I shot round with one of them to make up numbers)
I'm sure everyone has seen this, but it's a good series of articles and answered a lot of questions for me...
http://www.airgunexpress.com/Tech%20Articles/techarticles.htm
Nice One!
That will keep me busy for a bit. :)
I just sold one of my unbuilt RC Model Gliders for a few quid. So a rifle is looking more and more likly at the moment. :D
Mark
One for the techies who love to do all the maths...
http://www.chairgun.com/
Great download and suppy little proggy.
Takes a bit of working out, but very useful.
Wow, great website...
http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/rifledemos.htm
rapidboy
21-05-05, 11:23 PM
So did you invest yet Martyn ?
I did! :D :D :D
Got to wait until next week though. :mad:
More pics and info when I get them. Meanwhile I'll leave you in suspense! :P :P
A whole new website section is coming. :O
Thanks
Mark
So did you invest yet Martyn ?
I'm still undecided yet mate. I've raised the cash but am sitting on it for a while. In the meantime, I'm having fun with a plinking toy - a Walther CP99 - tons of fun, crap range, low power but great for putting a grin on yer face. :D
Basemetal
22-05-05, 01:03 PM
"The difference between men and boys...." :D
Here's a couple of pics of my new CP99....
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/cp99008.jpg
and in it's SOCOM clothes :D ....
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/cp99009.jpg
Actual;ly, the silencer is more than just a pose, the gun does have a rather loud muzzle report and the silencer (a Logan compact) does quieten it down considerably, turning it into a dull "thud". The downside of using the silencer (or rather this particular silencer) is that it obscures the front blade sight, making aiming it a bit of a bear.
Accuracy isnt bad at 15 yards, but goes down hill after that. At 25 yards, 4 inch groups is the best I can get, with the occasional "flyer". At 15 yards, the gun could take down a rabbit, no problem, but at 25 yards penetration would be iffy and accuracy dubious, making this a toy not a "vermin" gun (at least at ranges greater than 15 yards).
Buckets of fun though. It has an 8 shot rotary mag which drops into a slot revealed by releasing the slide forward....
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/cp99001.jpg
The gun is powered by CO2 powelets which drop into the magazine (where the bullets would go on a real gun) and delivers around 50 or so shots at full power (360fps)...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/cp99007.jpg
It'll fire pretty much as fast as you can pull the trigger, but a problem common to these guns is power drop off with rapid sequence firing. If you shoot too quickly, the CO2 cartridge gets very cold as the liquid CO2 inside "phase changes" into a gas. This results in a loss of power. You need to give the cartridge change to get over the phase change to keep fire at full power. You can empty the mag with a rapid fire sequence, but I noticed a power drop off by the eighth shot. I found that a "double tap" was good for consistent, full power though.
The gun is both single action and double action, which means you can pull the slide back to c.ock the gun, leaving only a short trigger pull to "break" and fire the gun (single action), or you can c.ock and fire the gun with one long trigger pull (double action). Better accuracy with single action, no question.
Great fun and big grins.
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/cp99003.jpg
You can change the backstrap on the grip to suit your hand too. A feature borrowed from it's big brother, the Walther P99. A nice touch. On that subject, the Walther pedigree is very evident. The gun is very well constructed, with a polycarb frame and metal slide & reciever. All the action is smooth and solid, the springs are strong and everything "snaps and clicks" just like you'd expect it to. I think the weight is almost exactly the same as the P99 and to be honest, you do get an "...erm, this feels like a real gun" thing going on.
Serious shooters would want something else, but for a fun gun, this is great.
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/cp99005.jpg
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/cp99006.jpg
That looks like fun! :) How many Coke cans have you killed? :D
I did think of one of these for fun plinking. But once I get my PCP versions I think the CO2 cartridge buying would get on my nerves. Maybe not too bad in 100s. Do you know of Bob at practical pistol?
This link should help http://www.practicalpistoluk.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=8985&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Good prices on pistol related everything.
Nice pictures. Lets see your target group! :D
Mark
Ropeman
22-05-05, 06:06 PM
I seem to remember Brocock making a refillable (air) cartridge for CO2 guns. (NOT the same thing as the now sadly and foolishly illegal Brocock tandem air cartridges) Available from Michael Tawn IIRC.
Nice pictures. Lets see your target group! :D
Mark
LOL - it isn't pretty. :lol:
I'll shoot a few tomorrow, offhand, standing at 15 yards. Between me and the gun, we should hit something. Anyone know where I can download free "barn door" targets? :lol:
mojofilter
22-05-05, 08:43 PM
Anyone know where I can download free "barn door" targets? :lol:
Think you could hit this mate? :P
http://www.bobvila.com/images/HowTo/IHouse/WindowsDoors/DoorGarage.jpg
Don't you find the extra weight of the silencer makes the pistol more difficult to hold steady
Think you could hit this mate? :P
http://www.bobvila.com/images/HowTo/IHouse/WindowsDoors/DoorGarage.jpg
From what range? :confused2
Don't you find the extra weight of the silencer makes the pistol more difficult to hold steady
...a little yes, but it's good for just blasting at tin cans and stuff. Cant sight with it on though - bit like using a shotgun. :lol:
I bought the gun secondhand and it did come with a dinky little silencer, made just for the job, but it doesnt "silence" nearly as well as the Logun...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/cp99002.jpg
rapidboy
22-05-05, 09:20 PM
I haven't shot a CP99 yet but i have been shooting a couple of P22's (short and long barrel versions) and a P99 in 9mm and a P99 in .40
Also had a look at the new P99 compact but didn't get to shoot it.
:D :D :D
Try a little red dot sight when you fit the can up front.
mojofilter
22-05-05, 09:27 PM
From what range? :confused2
Dunno, as long as you could kill it humanely with one shot! ;)
I haven't shot a CP99 yet but i have been shooting a couple of P22's (short and long barrel versions) and a P99 in 9mm and a P99 in .40
Also had a look at the new P99 compact but didn't get to shoot it.
:D :D :D
Try a little red dot sight when you fit the can up front.
Yeah, thought of that, but I read somewhere that they were difficult to zero at 10 feet. :lol:
What's the problem with over penitration when your hunting?
Ropeman
22-05-05, 11:19 PM
In order to kill prey as quickly and therefore humanely as possible it is essential to have as much of the projectiles energy expend itself in the prey. If a projectile passes through the target then energy remains ( i.e. what carries the procectile on).
Makes sense. I didn't think you'd get exist wounds from an air rifle.
Who wanted targets? :D Sorry no Barn Doors. :P
http://www.doubleought.com/printable_targets.html
http://www.targetz.com/
http://cz452.com/targets.html
http://www.varmintal.com/atarg.htm
http://www.nockover-targets.co.uk/pistol_nockover8.html These look to be the cheapest long term solution
http://www.targetinnovations.co.uk/ These look good but expensive in the long run.
That should keep you all busy printing for a while.
HTH
Mark
Makes sense. I didn't think you'd get exist wounds from an air rifle.
It's more of an issue with the smaller, faster .177 calibre. It can be overcome to some extent by using wad-cutter or expanding pellets.
Stuart Ackerman
23-05-05, 12:13 AM
And one for Martyn...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v727/zackerty/BarnDoor.jpg
hay martyn where did you pick up that little pistol and how much was it?
hay martyn where did you pick up that little pistol and how much was it?
I bought it second hand of airgunbbs, I paid £70 for it but they are available all over.
Do a search of UK websites for "Walther CP99" - word of warning though, they look so much like a Walther P99 (both guns made by Walther), that you have to be very careful where you take it.
This is the cheapest I've seen them new...
http://www.007q-branch.com/cp99_price.shtml
You can also get them from BAR, but are quite a bit more expensive....
http://www.airgunbuyer.com/Showproducts.asp?cat=Pistols&SubCat=CO2%20Pistols
Do a search of UK websites for "Walther CP99" - word of warning though, they look so much like a Walther P99 (both guns made by Walther), that you have to be very careful where you take it.
whats the difference?
MotorbikeMan
24-05-05, 01:37 PM
whats the difference?
P99 goes bang and tends to get scary men in black suits with bigger guns than yours pointing at you :O :D
P99 goes bang and tends to get scary men in black suits with bigger guns than yours pointing at you :O :D
ooh i seeee! thanks fellas!
ive wanted a pistol for a while but wasnt sure what to look for!
outdoorcode
24-05-05, 02:06 PM
I have a cp99, not bad plinkers :)
I got my two new Airguns today. :D :D :D
As this is all new to me I was a little surprised at a few things.
First the Steyr LP50 pistol is HUGE. :yikes:
Second the Daystate MK3 is a lot smaller than I thought it would be.
I also got a few extras like a Hill pump, Targets, Pellets, Silencer, 10 shot mag, Case etc.
I has a small problem with the quick release adapter supplied as it was the wrong size. I'll sort this with BAR tomorrow! :mad: Managed to attatch the Steyr fill adaptor directly to the pump. :D
I have not got the Leupold scope yet. But it is on the way from the US as I type.
Charged the Steyr pistol up. I know that the Hill pump will keep me fit until I get a 300 bar bottle! Nearly as good as rowing!
I set up my target in the garage and shot though the open inside door of the utility room. This is about 7m distance. To say I am impressed with the pistol is an understatement. It is very impressive. The grip fits me perfectly and the trigger is light and positive in use. I used the single shot mag to start with and managed to hit the target without any problems. I shot two handed to get used to the sighting and target image.
I realised very quickly that the shots were missing the centre by roughly the same amount. So I played with the click stop sight adjustments. This made things worse. :( So I changed direction. :lol: Things gradually got better, until I could hit the black area on the 10m pistol target. I started using the 10m rifle targets on the other side as there are 5 of these and this helped to get my eye in. I impressed myself with the amount I managed to get into the black areas. I can see perfection driving me crazy. :]
Single handed shooting is a LOT more difficult. Grouping goes out the window! So more practise here will be needed. 8)
I have shot nearly half a tin of pellets. The 5 shot mags are just too addictive. Especially as I have three of them. :D Charged the air cylinders a total of four times. But still have 1.5 full ones left for tomorrow.
First night in ages that got me away from the computer! So that has to be good!
I shot the Daystate MK3 by sighting along the barrel! I did this with the additional silencer installed. To say this gun is quiet is an understatement. The beep when you turn the safety off is louder than the gun report! I really want my scope now so I can play with this thing properly! The only thing that annoyed me is that ALL the Allen head screws appear to be imperial sizes as none of my metric stuff fits them. So shopping I must go!
Got to dash now as have to be up early! Working on site tomorrow.
Heres some pics :-
http://cones-stuff.co.uk/Airguns/Daystate_Steyr%20Pics/GM6I4863%20(Medium).JPG
http://cones-stuff.co.uk/Airguns/Daystate_Steyr%20Pics/GM6I4897%20(Medium).JPG
http://cones-stuff.co.uk/Airguns/Daystate_Steyr%20Pics/GM6I4873%20(Medium).JPG
http://cones-stuff.co.uk/Airguns/Daystate_Steyr%20Pics/GM6I4892%20(Medium).JPG
http://cones-stuff.co.uk/Airguns/Daystate_Steyr%20Pics/GM6I4920%20(Medium).JPG
Thanks
Mark
MotorbikeMan
26-05-05, 12:20 AM
Mark you sod!! :rolleyes: now I really need to get my pistol serviced and get a range set up :D Anyone know somewhere reliable to get a Daisy Powerline .177 pneumatic pistol serviced??
I got my two new Airguns today. :D :D :D
great stuff Mark, look forward to seeing more of them. :)
whats the difference?
The Walther CP99 is a .177 calibre, CO2 powered air pistol...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/cp99008.jpg
The Walther P99 comes chambered as a 9mm, .357 or.40 ACP...
http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p99-40b-left-full.jpg
Stuart Ackerman
26-05-05, 03:07 AM
...methinks the NZ Army are using the first one :D
Stuart Ackerman
26-05-05, 03:36 AM
Yup, but the Auzzie Army want their shotgun back, and the OZ Navy say that the rubber dinghy loaned to NZ in the 70's, will need new vulcanising soon...
There is a car dealer in Auckland who owns an airworthy Mig 21, sans weaponry. Is it not sad that a single citizen of a country has more defence capabilities than the Defence force...I do believe that there is the odd Czech Albatross, and Magister around...
Sorry to stretch way off thread :)
mojofilter
26-05-05, 04:20 AM
Nice stuff Mark :biggthump
I have got £500 burning a hole in my pocket right now as the result of selling one of my guitars on Monday, strongly tempted for an S200 and a dive bottle! :]
Stuart Ackerman
26-05-05, 04:24 AM
...or you could order a deluxe custom made knife....lots of choice, I believe?
Ropeman
26-05-05, 07:42 AM
For £500 you could get both.
I've just come up with a neat idea - a universal BB printer ready target. The idea is that you can just open the file, click "print" and get a target that will be the same scale as everyone else.
Here is the file...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/BBtarget01.jpg
here is is again...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/BBtarget01.jpg
If you want to check the scale, a 10p piece shout fit just about perfectly over the "10" ring like this...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/scale.gif
If you want to show off your shooting skills, using this target will give meaning to your pics, as we all should be able to print to the same size. Just open the jpeg in a new window and print directly from your browser.
For example, the following was shot at 7.5 metres, off hand using a walther cp99, CO2, 177...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/cp99011.jpg
Basemetal
29-05-05, 09:07 PM
Why don't you contrast the bull (or is that cheating?)
Basemetal
29-05-05, 09:07 PM
"BB Guns" has a familiar ring to it...
:D
Why don't you contrast the bull (or is that cheating?)
You mean like this.......
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/BBtarget01.jpg
File: http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/BBtarget01.jpg
Take your pick. ;)
Simon G
29-05-05, 09:31 PM
Right!! It seems we have a little competition developed here!! I've got a Colt 1911 Co2 so I'll have to get some sparklets and give this a "bang"!!
7.5 metres you say?
What do you say? You up for the challenge? Obviously, honesty must play as big a part in this as the shooting.
Simon G
29-05-05, 09:34 PM
Just printed the target and it appears to half the size of yours. Clicked the file as you stated. Anything else I should've have done?
Just printed the target and it appears to half the size of yours. Clicked the file as you stated. Anything else I should've have done?
Make sure you selected A4 paper, the 10 ring should be a 10p size, the bull is about 1cm in diameter.
Yeah, I'm up for a little compo, should be fun - you want to shoot double handed, crouching, standing offhand - what?
Oh, I think my printer is set to 300dpi. :)
MotorbikeMan
29-05-05, 09:56 PM
Anyone got any ideas where I can get one of these (http://www.reviewcentre.com/review37534.html) serviced in the Dorset area. I know it's no Steyr :rolleyes: but it's what I have. It's been sat in it's case for about 12 - 13 years. I had a go with it the other day and it seems fine, I'm just a bit worried about the seals and stuff being perished.
Basemetal
29-05-05, 10:01 PM
You mean like this.......
I was thinking the centre circle in white again. My problem shooting was always visual acuity.
Sunraven
29-05-05, 10:15 PM
Would it be cheating to use my Pro Target and 10-50x60 scope? 7.5m may be a tad close tho hehe. Be a while till I can go shooting again though,
I was thinking the centre circle in white again. My problem shooting was always visual acuity.
Mate, at 7.5m the sight picture on my Walther looks like this...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/BBtarget02.gif
:lol: :D :lol: :D
Would it be cheating to use my Pro Target and 10-50x60 scope? 7.5m may be a tad close tho hehe. Be a while till I can go shooting again though,
sure, so long as you can shoot it off-hand, standing. :lol:
Mate, at 7.5m the sight picture on my Walther looks like this...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/BBtarget02.gif
:lol: :D :lol: :D
Funny you should say that. :lol: :lol:
My LP50 is similar.
Great idea with the standard target.
Any chance of a PDF version? As I believe these will all print the same for everyone.
Thanks
Mark
Funny you should say that. :lol: :lol:
My LP50 is similar.
Great idea with the standard target.
Any chance of a PDF version? As I believe these will all print the same for everyone.
Thanks
Mark
Here ya go, havent done a test print though...
xxx didn't work xxxx
Basemetal
29-05-05, 10:56 PM
Mate, at 7.5m the sight picture on my Walther looks like this...
:lol: :D :lol: :D
I see you're an "onner" rather than an "underer"...
Now, if only I still had a gun....
:D
Just printed the gif and the PDF out. The gif is too small the PDF is too large. :mad: :mad:
I found these though! http://www.glockfaq.com/targets.htm
The 10m Olympic Air Pistol :- http://glockfaq.com/targets/olympics/10m_air_pistol.pdf
Make sure you don't select scaling when printing the PDF.
Do these work for everyone?
Mark
I see you're an "onner" rather than an "underer"...
Now, if only I still had a gun....
:D
Got no option, there is no vertical elevation on the sights. If I aim under, I shoot under.
Aha, I've cracked the target print size thingy. Apparently gifs dont store print info, but jpegs do. So I've just saved the file as a jpeg.
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/walther/BBtarget01.jpg
Open in a new window and print directly from your browser. Then do the 10p test thing - worked perfect for me. ;)
That's better! :biggthump :)
I think this is one to print out on the ethernet connected copier at work though! As by black ink is taking a hammerin! :lol:
Thanks
Mark
Blimmin eck, how many are you printin? I was thinking 3 targets for the comp and maybe a couple for practice.
rapidboy
03-06-05, 08:50 PM
Anyone got any ideas where I can get one of these (http://www.reviewcentre.com/review37534.html) serviced in the Dorset area. I know it's no Steyr :rolleyes: but it's what I have. It's been sat in it's case for about 12 - 13 years. I had a go with it the other day and it seems fine, I'm just a bit worried about the seals and stuff being perished.
Dunno who would service that ,ask over on airgun forum or airgun bbs.
If it's working just shoot it and worry about it when it stops - nothing dangerous about old seals ,it will just be down on power a little if anything.
rapidboy
04-06-05, 01:28 PM
I was given this yesterday to replace my standard Theoben evolution unit.
It's designed like a reflex so it doesn't increase the OAL and is made from alloy so doesn't add any extra weight up front.
Makes a 31ft/lb gun sound like a silenced 12ft/lb gun.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/guns/424_2459_1a.jpg
:D :D :D
What does this mean in English 'It's designed like a reflex so it doesn't increase the OAL' :) Thanks. Still learning!
Got my Combro chrono today. Ordered it direct yesterday! Gun produces 11.5 - 11.7 ft/lb on Daystate 4.53mm FT pellets at the highest setting. This is a little much for my indoor range though! :O
Have done some testing with the MK3 power settings to see what difference each level makes. I think I'll add the graph to the review.
I also got my Leupold scope. But no BKL rings from the US. :mad: :mad:
So I just ordered some more from the UK. The others if they ever turn up will be sold on or kept for my next rifle! :D
Thanks
Mark
rapidboy
04-06-05, 02:57 PM
What does this mean in English 'It's designed like a reflex so it doesn't increase the OAL' :) Thanks. Still learning!
Thanks
Mark
"Reflex" moderators are designed for full bore rifles.
They slide down over the barrel and instead of all the baffle chambers being in front of the barrel as with a conventional silencer the suppressor expansion chamber has an inner tube which sleeves back over the barrel.
This means you can have more baffle chambers and less OAL than with a conventional can.
Less OAL is a big advantage but there are others -they are less likely to be knocked out of alignment as there are 2 alignment points and also the projectile (pellet) spend's less time in the silencer so it is less likely to be effected by it.
This diagram from the Reflex site should explain it better.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/guns/Reflexsilencerdiagram.gif
rb
rapidboy
04-06-05, 03:32 PM
Had a little play with a Makarov MP-654K today.
This is a C02 ,steel BB firing version of the original 9x18 full bore pistol.
I was supposed to be making a holster for it but couldn't resist :rolleyes: .
Only had 6.5m but the group was quite good considering it shoot's steel BB's and not lead pellets.
The Russian BB's supplied are a little rough and i think that Crossman BB's should be more accurate.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/guns/424_2456_2_1.jpg
13 shot's ,free hand in single action and all in the black.
Shoot it double action and it becomes a beer can bustin legend :D
It uses many parts from the real deal so it look's ,feel's and even strip's just like the real thing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/guns/424_2484_1.jpg
The mag is removed as per the original and it contain's the C02 canister and the 13 BB's.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/guns/424_2488_1a.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/guns/424_2486_1a.jpg
A C02 bulb is good for around 60 shot's.
I didn't get a chance to chrono it but id say it's about the same power level as most of the other C02 fun gun's.
Because it's built around an original frame it will accept replacement and custom part's like wooden grips.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/guns/makgrips4a.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/guns/Makgrips3a.jpg
An accurate replica for a collector but also great fun and very VERY well built.
Im seriously tempted.
rb
13 shot's ,free hand in single action and all in the black.
Shoot it double action and it becomes a beer can bustin legend :D
Great shooting Tex. :biggthump
Seriously, nice grouping. I know 6.5m doest sound far, but that black area gets quite small without a scope and when your hand is waving around with a 2Lb lump of metal on the end it's well 'ard. I havent managed groups that tight with my Walther, I usually get at least one or two flyers outside of the black - but that's down to me, not the gun. :lol:
That gun looks nice too - I hadn't considered a BB gun for a plinker, but it looks fun.
mojofilter
04-06-05, 04:13 PM
Ive got an older one of these, great fun but can be a bit unreliable. According to the BAR website these new ones are much improved!
rapidboy
04-06-05, 04:27 PM
I have never been a big BB gun fan as they are usually pretty inaccurate but this surprised me.
I have never used one before so i can't comment on the reliability of older models but this one didn't miss a beat.
It is new and i did spend a little time removing lot's of storage grease which improved the action a lot and i ran a boresnake through the barrel to clean that out and was pleasantly surprised to find some nice shiny rifling.
I have read that the triggers and action's respond very well to a little tuning and that they can be modified to shoot the slightly larger lead BB's.
rb
rapidboy
04-06-05, 04:56 PM
Gun produces 11.5 - 11.7 ft/lb on Daystate 4.53mm FT pellets at the highest setting.
Why 4.53's ?
Did you try the others ?
Might be worth trying a tin of 4.51's and one of 4.52's.
Most of the Daystate's we sell are 4.52's and the only 4.53's are sold to Steyr LG100 shooter's.
mojofilter
04-06-05, 05:03 PM
Oops, my mistake, is not the marakov that I have, its the Walther PPK replica!
http://img242.echo.cx/img242/3118/pistol0vp.jpg
rapidboy
04-06-05, 05:08 PM
Oops, my mistake, is not the marakov that I have, its the Walther PPK replica!
http://img242.echo.cx/my.php?image=pistol0vp.jpg
The problem with the Walther PPK is that it takes a lot of C02 to operate the "blow back" slide and they need to be kept really clean to be reliable.
The Makarov slide doesn't move when fired.
I was working on a PPK last week and it wasn't working because the slide was dirty.
They are fun but not as accurate as the Mak.
mojofilter
04-06-05, 05:11 PM
The problem with the Walther PPK is that it takes a lot of C02 to operate the "blow back" slide and they need to be kept really clean to be reliable.
The Makarov slide doesn't move when fired.
I was working on a PPK last week and it wasn't working because the slide was dirty.
They are fun but not as accurate as the Mak.
It certainly isnt the most accurate kid on the block! :lol:
rapidboy
10-06-05, 04:32 PM
I bought an AirArms S410 Carbine unseen a couple of weeks ago and i went to see it today.
Cracking little gun ,totally unmarked and still in the box.Previous owner didn't even get around to putting the scope on it.
Came with a brand new Simmons 44 mag scope ,nice case ,1 mag ,couple of tin's of pellets and a few other bit's and pieces all for £270 (scope costs about that on it's own):D :D :D
Now im no fan of AirArms as a complany and im not really into the S410's but for that money it will do nicely for when my FAC Rapid is too much (and my GF can manage it so she can shoot it at the club).
Unfortunately my "selling off my surplus gun's and knives plan" is not going really going to plan as i also bought this little gem while i was in the gun shop.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/guns/426_2675_1.jpg
(little Nuwai III beside it for scale)
Im not sure how it's gonna group at 7.5m and it will be a couple of months before i get to shoot it by the time the paperwork is sorted but i've always wanted a little S&W .
Seriously ,how could I pass on this little cutie for £150.00 :D .
rb
Came with a brand new Simmons 44 mag scope ,nice case ,1 mag ,couple of tin's of pellets and a few other bit's and pieces all for £270 (scope costs about that on it's own):D :D :D
I hate you...
Seriously ,how could I pass on this little cutie for £150.00 :D .
I hate you more!
:P
Enjoy... :rolleyes:
Hellz
rapidboy
10-06-05, 05:40 PM
Enjoy... :rolleyes:
While i can but i fear these day's are numbered :( .
mojofilter
10-06-05, 07:12 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/guns/426_2675_1.jpg
rb
:happy22: :evilgrin3
While i can but i fear these day's are numbered :( .
I think the Irish public will probably put up a bigger fight against handgun bans than the British public, but as they usually follow the UK in most legal stuff, I'll bet you're right RB, sooner or later.
But will we get a Canadian General to oversee the disposal of ours?
;)
Danzo
TheViking
20-06-05, 06:58 PM
Girls, girls, girls. :D
Why play with airguns when you can have real guns? :D
http://img183.echo.cx/img183/8591/dsc004338kl.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
Bought it 2 hours ago, it is one heavy m**********r. 8)
MotorbikeMan
20-06-05, 07:13 PM
Girls, girls, girls. :D
Why play with airguns when you can have real guns? :D
http://img183.echo.cx/img183/8591/dsc004338kl.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
Bought it 2 hours ago, it is one heavy m**********r. 8)
Yeah, but the 12 guage pump action with solid slugs I'll be playing with next month is much more fun :]
And that's after the .22 semi auto rifle, .38 underlever rifle and .38 LBP as well :D
TheViking
20-06-05, 07:17 PM
Pumpgun not well looked at when hunting though. :D Well at least not over here.
MotorbikeMan
20-06-05, 07:22 PM
Pumpgun not well looked at when hunting though. :D Well at least not over here.
Not for hunting, just for clays, i.e. just for fun :D
TheViking
20-06-05, 07:45 PM
Ah good ol' clays. :D :P
old-git
20-06-05, 07:51 PM
BTTT
Is this one any good?:
http://www.pellpax.co.uk/acatalog/RatSniper.JPG
Rat Sniper Co2 .22 Air Rifle (QB78)
Probably the best Rifle on the site for the money, and we sell a lot in the shop, our customers see it and fall in love with it.
It takes 2 Co2 12g Co2 capsules and gives you approx 70 shots at around the same power output as the Ratcatcher
Type: Bolt Action Loading .22 cal
Trigger: Single Stage three way adjustable.
Safety:; Trigger block safety.
Stock: Hardwood.
Barrell: Steel Rifled 12 grooves.
Lengh: 40 inches (1015mm)
Weight: 5.75 lbs (7.6kg)
It would be used for rabbits. Ta!
:D oh yes now youv'e got the idea :D
click here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clifford.palmer/_sgt/m3_1.htm)
"Reflex" moderators are designed for full bore rifles.
Backtracking a bit now, sorry but I'm slow on the uptake.
If y'all are ever in the market for a centrefire moderator then I recommend that the Reflex (T4, T8 etc) as shown on Rapidboy's post are not on your shopping list.
They are good at hushing things down a bit, but as they are non-strippable (and not stainless) then they have an annoying habit of rusting. The manufacturers recommend spraying of light oil down the business end doesn't help either.
I won't be buying another, when this one's stuffed I'll be getting a Wildcat which is both strippable and stainless.
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