A little help please

[ANDYLASER]

I would like some advice on glueing metal spacers to wood for a scandi style handle. My attempts are not working too well. First attempt at glueing a brass spacer between the two pieces of wood resulted in the bond breaking. I used JB weld, but the joint parted when trying to drill the slot for the tang. The epoxy appears to have stuck to the wood, but not the brass.
Attempt 2, I roughed up the brass using a dremel and re glued. This time I didnt use any clamps. Maybe the first time I used too much pressure with clamping and squeezed most of the glue out.
I am now waiting for glue to set.......

A little help would be appreciated, Thanks.

[Basemetal]

Have you made sure the brass is de-greased? I use iso-propyl alcohol but meths would work just as well.

The brass should also be rubbed to a grit finish to make sure there is no coating on it and it isn't too smooth.

You could drill small (dremel) holes around the tang hole for additional keying through the brass.

Superglue could be used instead of JB if you worry about getting a thick epoxy layer...

:bandit:

[Colin KC]

& don't use JB weld (sorry if I'm offending any of our cousins "across the pond" but it's ****) use 24hr araldite & you can't go too far wrong (oh & follow BM's advice too;))

[Sajuma]

Use Araldite epoxy and keep the surfaces dry, clean and straight. Some roughing on surface might help too.

Juha

[Kevin]

First attempt at glueing a brass spacer between the two pieces of wood resulted in the bond breaking. I used JB weld, but the joint parted when trying to drill the slot for the tang. The epoxy appears to have stuck to the wood, but not the brass.
A little help would be appreciated, Thanks.


It sounds to me like you are trying to glue the brass spacer to the wood before you have made any slots......I have never tried it that way...and wouldnt want to as it sounds too difficult.

Keep the spacers and handle material slightly oversized to the final shape...... slotting the spacers and handle material seperately....., put the spacers on the tang individualy and add epoxy before you slide the next one down..and so on.....Then clamp them all together so that the pressure is pushing them together...(end to end)......Leave set for a day or so..then shape them as one handle.

The problem you have about spacers failing and coming apart is why I like to have a mechanical fit pressing everything down firmly...or....have the tang as long as possible and keep spacers to a minimum at the blade end.

JB IS good stuff ( :noggin: )...when used in the right circumstances....but I wouldnt useit for the purpose you are using it for because its too thick and would leave a dark line when dried.

[ANDYLASER]

Thanks guys, I shall get some araldite to try. The handle is currently setting with JB, I shall see how it goes this time. I will try Coutels idea on my next handle attempt.

[Tvividr]

Have you made sure the brass is de-greased? I use iso-propyl alcohol but meths would work just as well.
The brass should also be rubbed to a grit finish to make sure there is no coating on it and it isn't too smooth.
You could drill small (dremel) holes around the tang hole for additional keying through the brass.
Superglue could be used instead of JB if you worry about getting a thick epoxy layer... :bandit:
What Basemetal said. Be careful of overheating the brass when drilling though. Araldite (and other epoxies) will loose its bond (especially on surfaces like metal, glass etc) when heated above approximately 70 C after it has been cured.

[narsil]

In my experience aralidite will stick anything to anything else as long as you prepeare the joint surfaces properly and clamp them during bonding. I have also found that you need to leave the join for at least twice as long as the reccomended time before you even look at it hard let alone touch it. At this time of year I would leave an epoxy join at least three days before handling.

[Sajuma]

I agree with you Chris, sometimes it seems that it takes forever to cure...
Specialy the 24 hour araldite. But when its cured it's mighty strong stuff. I had one little drop ones on my clamp while gluing a handle and it took bit of an effort to get it off, the wood broke before the epoxy gave in! Fortunally it was just one little chip.

Juha

[Tvividr]

In my experience aralidite will stick anything to anything else as long as you prepeare the joint surfaces properly and clamp them during bonding. I have also found that you need to leave the join for at least twice as long as the reccomended time before you even look at it hard let alone touch it. At this time of year I would leave an epoxy join at least three days before handling.
or you can make a simple heatbox and cure at higher temps for a short time :D Use a lightbulb as heatsource.
If I am laminating a bowstave or something else I use the homemade heatbox that you see in the attached pic. It's a simple matter to drop a few knives in there at the same time. Obviously a simple knife heatbox do not need to be as big as this one :rolleyes: (and I don't always use the box for knives unless I am glueing something big at the same time).
Temp and curing times are usually written on the package, or you might be able to find info on the manufactures webpages etc. Standard 24 hour Araldite take 24 hours to cure at "room temperature" (about 20 C I think), but if you increase the temperature to 40 C the time need to cure the glue will decrease to only 3 hours.
I currently use the industrial version of Araldite (because I bought quite a few litres of it for making bows), but glueing experts working in the hightech arms industry (composite and glueing work on missiles) tell me that there is little if any difference compared to the standard commercial version of Araldite.

[ANDYLASER]

Thanks for all the info. The JB weld has given way again :banghead: so I have ground it all off, keyed the brass with some 400 grit and degreased with IPA. It has now been rebonded with good ol' araldite :D . Hopefully third time lucky. :biggthump . If nothing else, I have certainly learnt a lot with this knife. Maybe jumping in the deep end with multiple spacers was a bit silly :o for my first Scandi style knife. But at least I know where it all went wrong so the next one should be somewhat easier.

[ANDYLASER]

YAY Aralllldite :D :D :D :biggthump :biggthump :biggthump

Back on the case.

[Sajuma]

I shoudnt say this but... I told you so!!

Juha

[ZDP-189]

If the Araldite fails, Versachem Titanium epoxy will adhere to any metal, including difficult metals such as aluminium, titanium and brass.

[ANDYLASER]

Thanks, I have been getting a little worried, as this is my Chtistmas KITH project. However, I have achieved more today than I have in the last 10 days. I have just glued the blade into the handle. I will start the final shaping in a couple of days time.