stone carving chisels

[Dave Budd]

I've been asked to make some chisels for a local stone mason (sculptural carving). They mostly use a hard limestone,. but occasionally granite as well. I'm thinking for best results they should use seperate chisels for each rock (that way I can temper them differently if needed ;) ) The chisels will be hand tools and struck with a hammer, so not jack hammer bits.

My question is then, what type of steel would be best for making chisels from?

thanks

dave

[dtalbot]

Any decent carbon steel should do the job, never managed to get any more info than that from Tiranti who I get my chisels from http://www.tiranti.co.uk/subdivision_product_list.asp?Content=Stone+Chisels +-+Light+-+Carbon+Stonecarving+Tools+-+Stonecarving&Subcategory=21&Subdivision=73 . Just dont leave them too hard or they will chip to easily.
I use the same chisels on all sorts of stone without any problem.

[owen bush]

you have a fundimental problem with stone carving chistles ,one end has to be hard and the other end has to be soft ,you are not looking at super hard as the action is one of impact .
as far as the chistle staying sharp ...stone is an abrasive ,often the softer the stone the more abrasive it is .
I have made stone chistles from en9 before, you are going to risk dangerous chips on the arse end if you go for anything much harder (hard hammer onto hard steel = chips) one solution would be to make a mild steel hammer to go with them .

[dtalbot]

Nylon mallets even better! http://www.tiranti.co.uk/subdivision_product_list.asp?Content=Nylon+Mallets&Subcategory=28&Subdivision=
HDPE ok
http://www.tiranti.co.uk/subdivision_product_list.asp?Content=HDP+Carvers%9 2+Mallets&Subcategory=27&Subdivision=
Or soft iron for fine detail work like lettering
http://www.tiranti.co.uk/subdivision_product_list.asp?Content=Dummy+Mallets&Subcategory=29&Subdivision=

[wykeite]

The way I was taught with cold chisels was - forge to shape, heat to hardening temperature, quench the front (working edge) half of the chisel, withdraw from the quench and quickly with an old bit of grindstone remove the oxide scale and when the temper colour appeared on the chisel dunk and swirl. Job done, minimum fuss:D . Still split nuts with one I made as an apprentice8) .

[wykeite]

Nylon mallets even better! http://www.tiranti.co.uk/subdivision_product_list.asp?Content=Nylon+Mallets&Subcategory=28&Subdivision=
HDPE ok
http://www.tiranti.co.uk/subdivision_product_list.asp?Content=HDP+Carvers%9 2+Mallets&Subcategory=27&Subdivision=
Or soft iron for fine detail work like lettering
http://www.tiranti.co.uk/subdivision_product_list.asp?Content=Dummy+Mallets&Subcategory=29&Subdivision=

Not exactly what a real mason would use, you want something with "feel" like lignum wotsit. Too much bounce even with nylon, not what you want really, dead blows are more controllable. I suppose a lot also depends upon how you were trained, masons have developed their own traditional tools. Me, I'd start with a regular cold chisel and a ball pein hammer.

[dtalbot]

Nylon one is what I use for my hobby stone carving and what the proffesional sculptor who taught me uses. Plenty enough feel for me!
Though its very much each to their own on tools, just making the point stone carving tools don't get bashed with steel hammers as a matter of course!

[hankknickmeyer]

I teach sculpture and used to teach stone carving including tool making.
The softer stones like limestone and marble can be carved, granite is usually abraded or pulverized.

For the softer stones the primary tools are:
point--short taper with a square cross section
claw--chisel with teeth, each tooth with a square cross section
chisel--smooth edged chisel
These tools are held at a 30-45 degree angle to the stone and struck with a hammer.

For the really hard stones most tools are variations of the "bush hammer".
Think of a meat tenderizing mallet. A chisel or hammer face with square section pyramids striking the stone at 90 degrees to pulverize the surface.
These tools also make a nice surface on the softer stone.

Take seriously what was said above having a soft end to hit and regrind any "mushroom" frequently. I have had to have hammer and tool fragments surgically removed.

I prefer short bodied, short handled soft iron hammers for most work.

There will be other opinions,
Hank

[Dave Budd]

I'm sure they chaps have their hammers et al. They just happened to ask me if I could rework old chisels. I've done it for them in the past, but the different suppliers use different steels and I've had varying results when reforging and tempering them (some air hardened on me, while others were good in oil. I even had some split during the forging!).

So the easiest thing to do is to make them from scratch. That way, when they need reworking I already know how to heat treat them ;)

It's mostly Kilkenny they carve apparently.

[Delbert01]

I've been asked to make some chisels for a local stone mason (sculptural carving). They mostly use a hard limestone,. but occasionally granite as well. I'm thinking for best results they should use seperate chisels for each rock (that way I can temper them differently if needed ;) ) The chisels will be hand tools and struck with a hammer, so not jack hammer bits.


My question is then, what type of steel would be best for making chisels from?

thanks

dave

To select the best Chisel you can use TCT tools, TCT refers to Tungsten Carbide Tipped for cutting limestone and rough cutting granite or Carbon Steel hand tools made from high-strength treated steel, working to close temperature tolerances using the latest equipment.
______________________

Stone Carving (http://www.stonechisel.com.au)

[beatamax]

I have two types of stone chisel, ones that are struck with metal hammer and those struck with a wooden mallet. The ones used with a metal hammer are just like any other cold chisel but the ones for use with a mallet have the struck end forged into a ball.

[Chris Grant]

I had one I salvaged from junk in 1055. & one in 4140, both with a DIN prefix.

Maybe EN45 or EN8/EN9......

CG

[tenderfoot]

In the USA most of the chisels seem to be alloy steel (like 5160 ish stuff) with a fairly hard temper on the cutting bit and soft shanks. I don't know if that helps, but use something really tough. Maybe S7 if they will pay for it.

[mrcharly]

I had a mate who was a stone carver. Worked on York Minster before moving to Germany and getting his master's qualification.

He used nylon mallets.

[jools]

Good old 0.9% carbon steel will make good chisels and enable trouble free hardening and tempering.

A steel hammer or lettering dummy hammer is used with taper ended chisels

Nylon or wood or other dead-blow mallets are used with mushroom headed chisels which spread the impact on the mallet and stop chipping or cracking to the head

A steel hammer will provide the chisel with a hard "attack blow with little decay

A dead mallet will provide the chisel with a softer "attack" blow with some decay

Their use is often determined by personal preference but there are specific benefits from each type of blow to the stone. Steel hammers are better when stone needs to be removed quickly and without high precision,,,,,,,,,, mallets give a blow which is more like a soft push and gives high precision and a delicate touch,,,, but of course it depends on the mason, the type of stone and on what is being carved

Purpose made mason's chisels are not expensive and can be bought in flame-hardened carbon steel or with differing grades of tungsten carbide tips