View Full Version : Help!!
12-08-03, 08:55 AM
Hi I have the possibility to get some nice damascus blades from gene osborne amongst others. To keep cost down he has suggested that he can grind the bevel, but the rest ( sanding etching etc) has to be done by me.. :mad:
The problem is that I do not have the equipment to sharpen and etch let alone heat treat I could sand it myself if I know what sort of paper and what grits I must sand to and from though
Anyone willing tohelp with the other bits? :crying: :confused:
12-08-03, 09:05 AM
No worries Dave, get the blades, me & mebbe some of the others'll be only too glad to help.
When I have more time (read tonight) I'll give you a quick rundown of what you need (if someone else doesn't first)
12-08-03, 09:18 AM
You should get the blades at least finished through to and including heat treating. Otherwise it's liable to cost you more time and tears than you save. Once the blades are heat treated you'll know if the steel is any good as well.
Etching needs to be done in sulfuric acid. You can buy auto battery acid and use that but be SURE to wear eye protection at all times when the acid container is open. Also buy a respirator that is good against gases not just dust. And do the etching outside in a glass container. Also have a big box of bicarbonat of soda on hand to neutralize the etch and help in case of a spill.
Be advised, the acid will blind you permantely if it gets in your eyes! The fumes coming off the etching are not good for your lungs. Store the acid later where no kids can get to it. Do NOT pour the acid down the drain, take it to a chemical disposal place.
12-08-03, 09:44 AM
Living in Norway you almost need a licence to have acid!
I know from others that Gene makes first rate damascus .
Colin: I'll need masses of help, as far as grindingand etching is concerned. Gene mentioned an electronic etcher. I'd feel happier sanding myself and sending the blades to smeone else for etching etc.
Smiths here are sometimes a little difficulat and refuse to work with the damascus of others. Some want 35 quid per blade to sharpen and etch.
It all depends on what help I can get as to whether or not I bother getting the things made and sent.
I see no point in spending money on the blades for them to be laying around unfinished for ever and a day.
Gene certainly does produce some wonderful damascus, his speciality is composite cable.
I know Gene uses ferric chloride to etch his blades. I agree completely with Kevin about the heat treat, though differ in choice of etchant. While I dont doubt that pretty much any acid will work, sulfuric acid isn't used very often because of the hazards. I've used ferric chloride myself quite a bit and it's quite safe. You can even use vinegar if you're very worried about using chemicals, though you'll get better results with FeCl. You'll get some nice variations and advice for recipies (parts water to parts FeCl and time in bath) for different results, from these forums. Many people prefer a slow etch, with a weak FeCl solution as it offers more control over the etch. FeCl is also easier to get hold of. It's the same stuff sold by electronics shops and is used by them to etch circuit patterns into copper coated circuit boards. It's perfect. You can use plastic containers with Ferric Chloride with absolute safety, in fact just pick up an etching bath from the same electronics shop. Use in a well ventilated place.
By electronic etcher, Gene is referring to etching your name into the blade, not raising the damascus pattern out of the knife.
You really can do all this yourself, all you need are files.
Heat treatment is a different matter, and I would recommend you let Gene do it for you, so all you need to do is the final sanding/finishing, maybe a little reshaping and the etch to bring out the damascus.
Here are some threads where I've had fun with Osborn damascus...
12-08-03, 11:34 AM
Martyn: Gene told me that he would make the initial grind and shape the blade but for him to make the blade ready to mount, he might just as well make the knife.
I agree, so have asked how much for the blades in the state he suggested, but already htreated.
I am waiting for him to reply.
The sanding part I can do in the evenings when the kids are sleeping and the wife has stopped moaning about " you and those B****** Knives" , but as for the eching, You can't buy chemicals here. Blimey you can't even get a bottle of wine here unless you go to a stately owned shop and provide ID before you buy. They only jusy got beer in cans here...... Serious!
So etching and sharpening would need to go elsewhere.
Blimey you can't even get a bottle of wine here unless you go to a stately owned shop and provide ID before you buy. They only jusy got beer in cans here...... Serious!
:yikes: and so expensive to boot :alcoholic
12-08-03, 12:32 PM
Exactly .....like a bottle of house red costs a tenner and a bottle of smirnoff towards 40 quid..... :censored:
So etching and sharpening would need to go elsewhere.
You can buy ferric chloride as powder crystals over the internet for a couple of quid plus shipping.
12-08-03, 01:25 PM
I could get it nxt week whilst I am at home.... thing is that as a private person you are not allowed to have i here... Period. you have to be a registered business and the customs people here are really sharp.
I'd have no choice to send them away. This is one of the reasons that I asked for help! And why I always ask for damascus blades to come ready to mount.
That sucks Dave.
If you do manage to find a way to get some, this is the stuff you want...
Dont throw it away after use, you can use the same stuff thousands of times.
12-08-03, 01:43 PM
My sentiments exactly!
Sad to say I dare not take the chance. i don't fancy a massive fine, I'm hard up enough for cash as it is!
No I think that i'll either tell Gene to put the whole thng on ice, Pray to win the lottery or inherit lots of money. or just beg for help from you lot here.
12-08-03, 01:50 PM
Well, this'll spoil my post count... :)
Dave - you can also etch the blade with slightly more readily available materials. Examples - cider vinegar (OK, any sort, I just like the smell); cheap tinned tomatoes; not sure if you can get brick acid (hydrochloric, sold for masonry cleaning in DIY shops in the UK); even patinating with lemon or lime juice can work pretty well (especially for pattern welded steel) - I tend to do that to all my carbon steel blades anyway. They're slower, so more controllable, and much less unpleasant.
Reference on the tomatoes & vinegar - http://www.engnath.com/public/handles.htm & http://www.engnath.com/public/polish.htm
12-08-03, 01:57 PM
I'll have a squizz later. thanks
if u like i could take it on
martyn try this site
and click on the drop down menu and click pcb chemicals.
i just got 500g for £6.34 that twice as much as maplins and a lot cheaper
12-08-03, 08:08 PM
nice link, thanks.
Yup, welcome Jon and thanks for the link, good find - that just got bookmarked. ;)
13-08-03, 07:04 AM
Might well take you up on the offer.
I'll have a look at the stamp first and let you have a look at the wood. It'll be in the post today. Should be with you just after the weekend. Give me a mail when it comes. I have Plenty of other types too.
13-08-03, 11:43 AM
Forgot to add - there is also the infamous "mustard etch". AIUI this gives a more blotchy, random etched finish. Not tried, and I'm a little bit hazy about the details - suffice to say way are talking pre-made mustard, not Colemans powder.
13-08-03, 02:05 PM
could you use Wasabi on a japanese blade? :p:D
13-08-03, 02:22 PM
I've seen a reference to using daikon (grated) on mokume prior to patinating it...
I'm fairly sure it needs the vinegar content, and I don't usually make up my wasabi with anything other than ice-cold water.
Mix about a walnut-sized amount of prepared wasabi with a few tablespoons of (eg) Kikkoman soy to make a thin, runny paste. Cut an avocado into cubes, toss in the soy/wasabi mix. Serve chilled.
mustard etch/ just get some normal english mustard paste and dap it all over your knife. Wait till it's dryed then put the blade in ferric chloride
for a couple of mins take it out then rub the mustard off then you should have a nice mustard etch
Mix about a walnut-sized amount of prepared wasabi with a few tablespoons of (eg) Kikkoman soy to make a thin, runny paste. Cut an avocado into cubes, toss in the soy/wasabi mix. Serve chilled
Thank you Delia..
Thank you Delia..
more like Fanny Cradock :D
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