Bader or KMG?

[ZDP-189]

I am getting increasingly peeved with my sanding setup. My 1" belt is on its last legs, the disc cannot be reversed, and the linisher both slips and does not give me the clearance on the platen or on the contact wheel that I need for anything except flat linishing. :mad:

I may as well bite the bullet and but a decent belt grinder. The ones that first came to mind are the Bader and KMG. I'll admit I haven't considered it too deeply at all :huh: - it seems best to ask you views.

With reasonable budget and utility in mind, what should I get?

Bader

http://www.texasknife.com/store/images/B111.jpg (http://www.texasknife.com/store/s-pages/TKS_BaderBeltGrinder1.htm#BABM3)

KMG 1
http://www.kovalknives.com/images/kmgweb01.jpg (http://www.kovalknives.com/kmg.htm)

Others (http://www.kovalknives.com/grinders.htm), Procut, etc.

[shing]

I've heard a lot of good things about the KMG and PS bond has one so maybe he can give you some hands on info. I'm making a KMG inspired grinder, I can't afford to get a real one and its nice to make some machinery to make your own knives.

[ZDP-189]

Yup, that's "Plan C", but I figure that the easiest way to source the parts and to have the other bits machined is to get an original and work from there. By the time I would have done all the developmental work designing from scratch, I'd have spent the same money anyway.

Also, I did a bit of research and discovered that the cost of making the machine here as a one-off would be more than the original after shipping to the USA and duties. :O

[johnuk6]

I’m with you Shing I striped down my last linisher and re-built like the KMG just got to mount the motor and it’s ready to use.

[akraven]

You migth also check out the Coote grinder. It is cheaper but you supply your own motor. For shipping across the pond that may be a help. I just bought one for my first "real" grinder and am impressed with the quality. No I haven't ground anything on it yet but it runs true and smooth. Good luck. akraven in alaska
http://www.cootebeltgrinder.com/

[ZDP-189]

akraven, thanks! You've probably saved me a lot of money. There's no point shipping a 120V motor, drive belt and mount to Hong Kong, when I can buy a really powerful one here for a fraction of the price.

The Coote looks better than the Kalamazoo and maybe even the Procut. It's probably not as wonderful as the KMG or Bader, but if I can save a thousand bucks, who's complaining?

I will probably pick up a 2"x10"x72 or 2"x8"x72 Coote, roller unit and mount it to a steel pedestal and 2HP motor with 3 speeds.

PS/ 3 posts and 16 rep points. That has to be a record!

[Mike Stewart]

I don't know if you intend on Slack belt grinding but if you are the KMG set up does not look like it will work.

I have the Bader you picture and It is not for someone who is not ready for a super speed grinder. That thing is twice as fast as any other unit I have. It is also not good for slack belt grinding. The tensioner will give and the belt will not track.

If you are going to spend that kind of money--get a Burr King or a Hardcore. They are the best. if you can afford it, get the vari-speed.


Mike............................ :)

[PS_Bond]

I don't know if you intend on Slack belt grinding but if you are the KMG set up does not look like it will work.

Assuming we're talking about the same thing... You remove the flat platten and grind between the 2 platten support wheels. I don't tend to do much slack belt work other than putting on edges.

I can't really comment on other grinders as the KMG is the only 2x72 I've used!

[twisty]

Dan,
There are plenty of different setups taht you can get for the KMG, from slack belt grinding to bits that I can't see a need for. And Rob FRINK will also sell you the grinder with out the motor as well.

I just got a grinder made fro me by someone in my home town. Kind of KMG inspired, but loads heavier as it's made with steel and not aluminum.

Trenton :cop2:

[PS_Bond]

Kind of KMG inspired, but loads heavier as it's made with steel and not aluminum.


My KMG weighs in at about 137lbs IIRC... The only Al on it that I can think of is the wheels. How much heavier do you *want* the beast??? :D

[shing]

Might be an idea to check what lengths of belts are available in HK. I'm making mine to use both 72 inch and 2000mm because 2000mm belts appear quite often on UK ebay for a song but 72 inch ones don't. I think you could get extra tool arms for the KMG to use different lengths of belts.

[ZDP-189]

Shing,

If you want belts, you should PM me.

Pricing: (Sorry, this was not meant to turn into an ad., it's more of a public service.)

I am certain to beat eBay by a comfortable margin. I can get the belts in standard lengths (they use inches) from stock, or ones made to your spec. in about a week.

Taking lengths I am familiar with as examples, I can ship 1x15" belts worldwide for 50p, and 4x48" belts for £6.60. Assuming the same cost per inch, 2"x72" belts would work out at only £5. I am sure there would be some discount for bulk too.

[ZDP-189]

I don't know if you intend on Slack belt grinding but if you are the KMG set up does not look like it will work.

I have the Bader you picture and It is not for someone who is not ready for a super speed grinder. That thing is twice as fast as any other unit I have. It is also not good for slack belt grinding. The tensioner will give and the belt will not track.

If you are going to spend that kind of money--get a Burr King or a Hardcore. They are the best. if you can afford it, get the vari-speed.


Mike............................ :)

Mike, thanks for your expert advice.

Burr King
http://www.kovalknives.com/960-272%20new%20angle.jpg (http://www.kovalknives.com/burrking.htm)

Also (link (http://www.burrking.com/))

HardCore Grinders
http://www.trugrit.com/images/2X72-billet_model.jpg (http://www.trugrit.com/knife-hardcore.htm)

I have looked at the Burr King and the HardCore machines you recommend and they certainly are the business (literally).

Unfortunately, at c. $2,000 plus shipping, they are still out of my current price range.

Like Trenton, my first and second belt sanders/ linishers were locally sourced and very cheap too. I am now starting to understand what makes a good knifemaking grinder, but nobody here can supply them and I guess the Coote is still my best overall choice.

[twisty]

Just thought I'd post some pics of my grinder. The thing that I like about it is this... Flip the tool bar over, and on the oposite side of the platten is a 2" rubber wheel for curves. Another tool bar can be added with a large wheel for hollow grinding, but i'm not really inerested in doing that right now. The platen is fully moveable, and can be set at 5 different angles. The tool rest is also felly movable/removable. It was built so that it could also take 2x60 belts as well.
http://www.sasktelwebsite.net/entwis01/grinder1.JPG http://www.sasktelwebsite.net/entwis01/grinder2.JPG http://www.sasktelwebsite.net/entwis01/grinder3.JPG http://www.sasktelwebsite.net/entwis01/grinder4.JPG http://www.sasktelwebsite.net/entwis01/grinder5.JPG

The motor is in the shop on the bench. I just got it and haven't finished up the wiring yet!

Enjoy,

Trenton :cop2:

[shing]

Thats a nice machine you goy Trenton, I'm sure most good machine or fabrication shops could build it.

[Kevin]

I have used Bader 3, Burrking and KMG many times .....All are very good.....though the position of the flat platen on the Burking means you cannot hold the work truly vertical without the possibility of grinding your fingers........so have to hold at a slight angle to the side....But if you can put up with this, the BurrKing also allows you to flat grind on the platen, slack grind above the platen, or a tight convex grind underneath the platen and between the large contact wheel (Ed Fowlers method), and hollow grind on the wheel...ALL without adding or removing anything.

As with most grinders there are a lot of add ons, like tooling arms, rests etc..so will addd to the costs...and if you can afford it, my advice is to definately go for a variable speed option (this makes a BIG difference!).


I personaly didnt like the platen attachemnet that came with my Bader....it was too small ...so I added a KMG arm and platen.

The KMG is built like a tank!

If these three machines were cars.....then IMO, the Burrking is a Mercedes, the KMG a BMW, and the Bader, a Ford..... :)

[imagedude]

And RJH are the volvo estate of the linishing world.

[rapidboy]

Just got an email for Coote re shipping to Northern Ireland.

"Yes, we ship internationally, so for to England, France, Canada, and
Tasmania shipping the 2x6x72 only at 30 lbs. via postal service economy
surface (4-6 weeks) $67.25 plus $5.60 for $400 insurance. These rates
can
be obtained at www.USPS.com. Shipping one to Canada some time back
cost me
$11 more than the quote, so am somewhat apprehensive about the rates.

Norm Coote"

So a quick calculation

$335.00 (for a 2"x6"x72" model)
$67.25 Shipping
$5.60 Insurance

Total's $407.85 or £215.03

Import duty (im not sure but say 5%) £10.75
VAT £39.51
Customs fee (again not sure but usually £8.00)

So delivered and all fee's paid £273.29

Today i was pricing up bit's and pieces to try and fabricate my own and aint exactly cheep so the Coote looks pretty good value.

Anyone use one or know anymore about them ?

[ZDP-189]

Trenton, I'd be interested if you have plans/ drawings for your machine.

[twisty]

Dan,
I can get the measurements and sizes and what not, and take some close up photo's, if that will suffice. I'm already going to be sending rapidboy some picks in the near future.

I won't be until later next week though as I have orders to finish, real work to do, and I'm leaving on Thursday to go down south with the wife to visit the family for a few days.

Cheers,

Trenton :cop2:

[ZDP-189]

Thanks Trenton,

I will probably order a 2"x10"x72" Coote, but as he doesn't accept any payment but cheques/bank drafts, and will ship back by surface, it'll be some time before I have a grinder.

And besides, I plan to make myself an additional grinder with a smaller radius-diameter wheel.

[Tvividr]

Dan, another two here:
Wolfmaster
http://www.wolf-borger-messer.de/images/wolfmaster1.jpg
http://www.wolf-borger-messer.de

SH Bandslip
http://hem.fyristorg.com/SH-slip/imagen2.jpg
http://hem.fyristorg.com/SH-slip/

I'm seriously thinking about one too.... :D

[akraven]

ZDP-189 Good luck on what ever you decide and let us know your final choice and how you like it after you try it out. Part of my reason for ordering the Coote was also shipping inspired. Living in Alaska makes shipping very expensive and I already had 2 differient motors I could use. I also just liked the general simplicity and versatility it offered. I mounted mine to 2 layers of 1" plywood on top of a cabinet and it is solid. Good Luck akraven

[ANDYLASER]

Have you seen This (http://hometown.aol.com/lgcbinforg/myhomepage/business.html) beasty. Probably even cheaper if you get it without the motor.

[ZDP-189]

http://l2i.org/logcabingrinder.jpg

Andy, thanks. That looks like a very solid machine. The 4 wheel configuration saves a lot of space too. And as you say, the price is very low compared to comparable machines with motors fitted.

Looking at the picture, the heavy integral housing is very much a part of the machine. The motor looks to be only a fraction of the overall weight.

Coote's 36lb (largest) grinder is costing me $157.40 to ship airmail (surface was $63.20), and I do prefer the two wheel setup, so I am still glad I bought the coote.

[ANDYLASER]

You've gone for the Coote then? There seems to be plenty of good words about it on Knifeforums. Let us know how you get on with it.

[JohanB]

ZDP, what motor are you going to use for the coote?

[ZDP-189]

As big as I can get. i.e. anything from 1HP (single phase 220V) to (3HP three-phase 380V). I wouldn't normally get three phase, because I was quoted more than the motor's cost just to run the cable from the shop's junction box, but a friend who may opt to share my workshop is a qualified electrician and said he'd do it for free.

[ZDP-189]

Gerd, having checked out the two machines you posted, the Wolfmaster looks elegant, and easily adjustable, but I have too many unhappy experiences with aluminium machinery. The SH-Bandslip is awesome, but there's no mention of price. What's it selling for?

[Martyn]

Assuming we're talking about the same thing... You remove the flat platten and grind between the 2 platten support wheels. I don't tend to do much slack belt work other than putting on edges.

I can't really comment on other grinders as the KMG is the only 2x72 I've used!

Peter, mind if I ask what was the shipping/VAT hit likie on the KMG?

[Tvividr]

Gerd, having checked out the two machines you posted, the Wolfmaster looks elegant, and easily adjustable, but I have too many unhappy experiences with aluminium machinery. The SH-Bandslip is awesome, but there's no mention of price. What's it selling for?
Yeah, I'm not too keen on aluminium myself.
The SH-Bandslip single phase retails for 8100 Swedish kroner (£ 615)
3-phase SH-Bandslip for 7750 Skr (£ 588 )

The Flat platen with small wheels retails for 2450 Skr (£ 186)