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Danzo
25-03-05, 06:11 PM
Hi folks

Firstly my apologies for the lack of photos but my PC is playing up. I can't seem to link to the original picture in the original 'folding dagger' thread either. As soon as it is sorted I'll get them posted up.

Anyway, if you are reading this you probably know that ancientarms (aka SR) in India posted a picture in maker sales of a very attractive all damacus folder. We decided on a passaround and SR kindly offered to post the knife first and we would pay later. Several things have slowed this first review down for which I apologise to SR and all involved. I'll get a Paypal account sorted today so everyone can pay easily and I can get the cash to SR.

To the knife. The folder is manufactured entirely from damascus steel, blade and handle. It is a classic lockback design with a clip point blade.

The blade is 9cm long, the handle 11cm and the knife opened is a smidgin over 19cm. It is a heavy piece, as you might expect given its all steel construction, weighing in at 166g (5.9oz)

I'm no expert on damascus, in fact I know little about it, but this seems good to me. The patterns in both blade and handle are interesting and nicely etched. There is a very pleasant tactility to the knife and you can make out all the etching with your fingernails

The overall fit and finish seem good to me, for a knife that costs $45.00 including postage from India. The scales are two pieces of damascus steel adjoining the spine lock bit, (wassat called? The middle bit?) and they look cleanly cut and smoothly ground. They fit cleanly on either side. The lock has a smooth action and has an almost seamless fit against the back of the blade. Guycep and Shing both handmake folders and this is something you see in work of their quality. I'm sure we all have cheapo (and not so cheap) lockbacks where there is an annoying gap between the lock/spring/spine bit and the blade. There is cutout on the bottom of the handle about an inch long in a crescent shape which affords a good forefinger grip with the thumb along the spine of the blade.

The handles are held together with three pins and a complaint here is that they protrude. This may be a design feature as the protrusion is uniform on all three on both sides but I would prefer them flush.

The blade has quite a deep belly and a severe clip point, very like a traditional Bowie. However, here is where we do have a slight problem. The blade is best described as 'suitable for sharpening' as it is clearly as yet unsharpened, or even only partially ground. I have raised this with SR and he says ancientarms are able to produce fully sharp knives but India has restrictions on exporting fully sharp blades. If you have a modern Fairbairn Sykes commando knife it is that sort of edge. I believe that supplying knives and swords in this 'ready to sharpen' state was always British military practice so this may have influenced Indian law.

Clearly this will turn quite a few people off but I think it can be remedied and I think it is also important to recognise that not many people are going to want to carry an all steel damascus folding knife as a user. This is essentially a collectors piece, an opportunity to own an interesting and unusual item.

The knife also comes with a black leather belt sheath which looks good and smells even nicer! It comprises two pieces of leather, a larger back piece which also forms the flap and a smaller front piece. The sewing is good and the edges are well finished and heat treated for that nice smooth look and feel. It is well made to my untrained eye, with a decent press stud and the belt loop riveted on to the sheath, not sewn. I don't think you could buy a sheath like this retail for under £8.00 in Britain, and at a Craft Fair you would probably see it on display for £15.00

So, would I buy one? Well for $45.00, including the sheath and delivery, I reckon so. I'm going to wait and see if I win the draw, but to me it's good value for an interesting conversation piece. I would certainly bring it out to show someone as an interesting example of the folder makers art and craft. If I was an American I think that I might take a harsher view though. The weak dollar means us Brits can have this in our greasy paws for about £25.00, which doesn't get us much here in the UK, but our chums across the big water can get a lot for $45.00.

On to Tiffers!

:biggthump

Danzo

Danzo
25-03-05, 07:36 PM
Let's see if this (www.ec21.com/co/a/arms/img/oimg_GC00107667_CA00119549.jpg) links to SRs original pic.

:D

Danzo

ZDP-189
25-03-05, 07:40 PM
http://www.ec21.com/co/a/arms/img/oimg_GC00107667_CA00119549.jpg

Indeed it does.

Danzo
25-03-05, 07:47 PM
Oh, that's spooky as I was just going to ask you if you could try and do that as it isn't working for me!

:O

Danzo

JohanB
25-03-05, 08:55 PM
Very well put-together review. Very honest aswell. Good one, cant wait to get it :D

Danzo
25-03-05, 09:33 PM
Thanks Johan, I look forward to hearing what you think of it.

Danzo

Rod Neep
29-03-05, 03:52 AM
Hi Danzo

I already have a knife similar to that from the same source. I'd go along with everything you say, right down to the sharpness. (The angle of the edge grind is a bit too large and needed quite a lot of work to get it back to about 20 degrees - worth it though!).

Very similar, but with a different blade and handle shape
http://www.rod-neep.co.uk/rod/knives/others/india/damasc2-1-500.jpg

Here's another one: a slipjoint with half stop. 5-1/4" overall and blade length 2-1/4"
http://www.rod-neep.co.uk/rod/knives/others/india/damasc3-1-500.jpg

And finally.... a beast of a heavy stag lockback. 7-1/2" overall and blade length 3-3/8". The stag is pretty stunning and the handle a good 3/4" thick at its widest.

http://www.rod-neep.co.uk/rod/knives/others/india/indiastag1-500.jpg

I bought them just to see what they would be like, and especially at those relatively cheap prices, the're pretty good!

Cheers
Rod

Danzo
29-03-05, 10:12 AM
Many thanks Rod.

I completely forgot to mention that the one we have is NOT the one in the picture posted by SR. Fortunately for all you visual pic-junkies it very similiar to the one in the top picture posted by Rod, except it has the deep choil cutout on the handle.

Danzo

Tiffers
04-04-05, 10:21 PM
Right! After a few hiccups with the post office, I finally have this folder to look at and review.

My initial thoughts on sliding the knife in its sheath out of the jiffybag was "wow, its heavy!". I really hadnt expected something of this weight. I made a concsious effort not to look at the sheath as I didnt want that to sway my thoughts on the actual folder. Another thing I put out of my mind for the time being was the cost.

I slid the knife out of the sheath, fiddling it a bit when one of the studs caught but then being quite impressed with what I was looking at. It opened smoothly without threatening to break a nail but being firm enough to have to make it a concsious effort to do so. It clicked into its fully open position and felt instantly comfortable in my hand....apart from the three studs which stick out quite considerably. It would feel much nicer to handle if they were either flush or even half the size they currently are. Closing the knife up I noticed that there was a loud clicking noise as it finished closing and I began to wonder if the blade was making contact with the inside of the spine. I was thinking about this even before I read Shings excellant thread on what to look for in a quality folder honest! :D

A bit of paper was slid into the knife to rest along the inside of the spine and sure enough, when we tried to pull it out, something stopped the paper from slipping out smoothly. We could only guess that there is a contact point in some place. During these tests we also realised that there was some amount of movement with the blade when it was closed, none when it was open though.

When I looked down the blade edge it was fairly obvious to me that the ground edge was off centre. If anyone wanted to fully sharpen this blade then they would have to be careful to get it even.

The damascus pattern can even be traced down onto the ground edge of the blade and is attractive to look at. I know nothing about damascus so wondered if someone could answer a question for me.........on the blade, you can see the pattern which is dark and dense however, close to the end of the blade which is pinned to the handle, the pattern becomes much more silver than dark grey. Is this because of the way the pattern is etched?

It did feel very comfortable to hold and is a nice size, I actually liked it in an odd way and would happily have it in my collection. I'm not sure if it would be a seriously usable knife though.

The sheath material is a bit papery and the colour is beginning to come off where it is bent over the top of the knife. I suspect that within a very short time it would wear out to the point of tearing. Some of the blacking is also coming off the rivets. This could be solved by simply replacing with nickleplated ones. Its a shame that the material lets it down when the style, shape and other workmanship is good. It would be a good sheath to just act as a protector if you were storing it as part of a collection though.

When you bring the cost into play its fairly amazing really as its an interesting piece at an interesting price. You can take a step back and look at it and realise that perhaps the pins not being flush isnt actually too much of a problem and the grind on the blades is something you like to be able to sort yourself anyway and the sheath is totally suitable for protecting the knife.

The thing to consider is this.........do you want to pay $45 for a knife with a few things you have to not mind about or keep looking to see if you can find one for $65 that doesnt have those flaws?

To my very inexperienced eye, it looks like it might be worth spending a little bit extra time on it to sort out a couple of flaws for an extra $5?

However............I wouldnt say no if I win it in the passaround draw ;)

Thanks for giving me the chance to take a look at this Danzo and also a huge thanks to AncientArms! Nice one :)

Cheers!

Tiffers

Anarcus
04-04-05, 11:55 PM
Nice review Tiffers :biggthump

Stuart Ackerman
05-04-05, 12:24 AM
Wots the hardness of the blade like?... does it "sing" when sharpened on a ceramic rod, if you have one?

Wrangler
05-04-05, 11:30 AM
Wots the hardness of the blade like?... does it "sing" when sharpened on a ceramic rod, if you have one?

Ancientarms answered my question about hardness.
He said 50-55 HRC, what`s a very wide range. :rolleyes:

BTW I don`t think he wanted to say that the blade is differentially hardened from ~ 55 HRC on the edge to ~ 50 HRC on the spine. :S

Guess it`s a nice collectors item at a reasonable price and not a real user. :D

Wolfgang

fastbreak
05-04-05, 02:07 PM
Ancientarms answered my question about hardness.
He said 50-55 HRC, what`s a very wide range. :rolleyes:

Guess it`s a nice collectors item at a reasonable price and not a real user. :D

Wolfgang

That does rather fit with my experience of cheap Indian Damascus blades :rolleyes:

They make excellent decorative butterknives though. I have two of them. Although we actually use the more robust of the two as a cheese knife :)

Have fun

Mike

Tiffers
05-04-05, 10:05 PM
Wots the hardness of the blade like?... does it "sing" when sharpened on a ceramic rod, if you have one?

Yes we have ceramic rods :) But I didnt try sharpening it for a couple of reasons, 1)I am used to freehand sharpening my own knives on an oilstone, I'm not practiced (yet) on my ceramic thingys and 2)the ground edge already on there is (as mentioned in my review) fairly off balance. I wouldnt want to hash it up for people further up the passaround line and for the one who eventually ends up with this knife.

My saddlery round knife sings when you flick it, the folder blade sounds an awful lot more dense and grounded if you know what I mean!

:D

Tiffers

Stuart Ackerman
05-04-05, 10:31 PM
I might just get one and HT it again and see....
I bought a folder made in Pakistan years ago, and after dismantling it, because it was junk, I HTed the blade. Wot a diff.!!! I reassembled and sold it a while later for a profit.. wish I had kept it.

JohanB
06-04-05, 07:03 AM
Have we dropped taking pictures in a local landmark together with the knife?

Danzo
06-04-05, 01:52 PM
Have we dropped taking pictures in a local landmark together with the knife?

Er........I forgot! But there is no reason why the rest of you shouldn't do it!

:D

Excellent and well informed review Tiffers.

:biggthump

Danzo

Tiffers
06-04-05, 07:18 PM
I'm gonna take a piccie of the knife somewhat at the weekend........I have a place in mind :) I will post it up when its done then pass the knife onto MBM :D

Tiffers

JohanB
20-04-05, 11:03 AM
where is it? any reviews comming?

MotorbikeMan
20-04-05, 12:00 PM
AAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!

My hugest apologies possible, with everything going on at work at the moment, (open days, new websites etc) I had totally forgotten I had this. I will write a review tonight, (one of two that I have neglected) and I will get it in the post tomorrow.

I am so sorry guys

MotorbikeMan
20-04-05, 09:10 PM
Ok, here goes.

It does feel surprisingly solid and much heavier than I expected. I agree about the pins, it would have felt nicer if they were flush, but on other Indian folders I've seen, the pins are the same sticking out style so maybe it's a regional thing.

The edge isn't sharp at all but a little work could possibly get quite a bit better. Wether or not it would hold an edge I don't know. I suppose it depends on the steel and the HT involved but it'll be interesting to find out.

For the money, this is a bargain and would be a really nice addition to anyone's collection, wether it would make an edc......who knows :rolleyes:

Who's next for this now?

Danzo
20-04-05, 09:29 PM
Dunno, your sister seemed to have a list.

:rolleyes:

I should have one as then I can ask people to send me money.......I am so c**P at this sort of thing.

:S

TIFFFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! !

I need you! I actually do have my mittens on strings in case I lose them. Please say you have a list?

:D

Danzo

Tiffers
21-04-05, 05:13 PM
Dunno, your sister seemed to have a list.

:rolleyes:

I should have one as then I can ask people to send me money.......I am so c**P at this sort of thing.

:S

TIFFFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! !

I need you! I actually do have my mittens on strings in case I lose them. Please say you have a list?

:D

Danzo

I have a list indeed ;) I will update the passaround thread in the passaround forum, rather than this one which is the review thread in the review forum ;)

Tiffers

Stew
21-04-05, 05:15 PM
Dunno, your sister seemed to have a list.

:rolleyes:

I should have one as then I can ask people to send me money.......I am so c**P at this sort of thing.

:S

TIFFFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! !

I need you! I actually do have my mittens on strings in case I lose them. Please say you have a list?

:D

Danzo


She has this:

Post #9 (http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showpost.php?p=118961&postcount=9)

Tiffers
21-04-05, 05:20 PM
She has this:

Post #9 (http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showpost.php?p=118961&postcount=9)


Meow :)

Updated list at the end of the thread, removed MBM, Danzo and myself and we have also paid Danzo for our part of the folder too.........I think I got one of the pins as my part of the deal :D

Tiffers

Stew
21-04-05, 05:39 PM
Meow :)



That was Post #9, from that thread, not your 9th post, just in case you misread me! :rolleyes:

Danzo
17-05-05, 05:07 PM
Johans excellent post in this forum on a similiar knife forces me to ask where this one is?

:S

Danzo

Stephen63
17-05-05, 10:30 PM
Johans excellent post in this forum on a similiar knife forces me to ask where this one is?

:S

Danzo

Danzo,

It's just been posted to me by Beach Bum but, as I was abroad when the postie called, it's actually sat down at the Post Office, I'll be collecting it tomorrow.

Danzo
17-05-05, 10:32 PM
Danzo,

It's just been posted to me by Beach Bum but, as I was abroad when the postie called, it's actually sat down at the Post Office, I'll be collecting it tomorrow.

Hoorah!

Danzo

Bazza
18-05-05, 09:58 AM
Danzo,
how much do you want for my contribution to the Damascus Folder and how do I pay you?
Barry

Danzo
18-05-05, 05:41 PM
A group PM for Paypal payment will go out today or tomorrow, Baz. If you don't do Paypal then I'll accept money or pictures of ladies with no clothes on.

:D

Danzo