Teach me about GPS?

[Cones]

Good thread this!

I am thinking about a GPS unit for my car. But I also want to have a PDA device.

Currently looking at the Dell Axim X51V. On offer at £262 http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/pr...hs1&l=en&s=dhs

With Tom Tom Navigator 5. About £80 http://www.tomtom.com/products/secti...229&Language=1

Possibly a Globalsat BT-338 Sirf Star III 20 Channel Bluetooth GPS receiver with 17+ hours run time. About £85 http://www.pdamods.com/proddetail.as...ARTNER=FROOGLE

I am a little worried at the reports of issues on the Dell PDA though. But it is fast with a big VGA screen.

I could also then run OS GPS mapping software for walking.

What do you think?

Thanks

Mark

[Martyn]

I could also then run OS GPS mapping software for walking.

What do you think?

I think it depends what you mean by walking?

For serious hillwalking, camping & hiking, I think the concept of an outdoor PDA is a bit of an oxymoron.

But if your first, overiding requirement is for a PDA, then it does make some sense. If your need is for a GPS first and foremost, get one dedicated to the task. The only problem with the PDA route is that it's niether the best in car solution, nor the best outdoor solution. So I'd only buy one if my need was for a PDA and my GPS requirements were not all that important.

If ever they come up with a touch screen PDA that can equal a TomTom for in car functionality, plus a ruggedized case that can be submerged and float, with a 30 hour battery life on a single set of AA's ...and a fully functioning PDA - I'd probably buy one. But they havent made one yet.

[Martyn]

To explain further. If you are somewhere where you need an OS map, then you really should have an OS map. If you've got an OS map, all you need from a GPS is the ability to pinpoint your location, mark waypoints and backtrack. With that in mind, a good outdoor GPS is a rugged, waterproof unit, simple with good reliability, good accuracy, with a good clear screen in all lighting conditions, good big buttons, great battery life on a pair of AA's and basic, basic GPS functionality. A PDA offers great mapping (which is superfluous), yet doesnt tick any of the boxes for the most important requirements and the battery life is an appaling 1-3 hours before you need to find a wall socket to recharge it, with the chargers you have hopefully bought along in your rucksack. Bit of a PITA if your OS map vanishes halfway up a hill - no? If you are not anywhere where you need an OS map, then you probably dont need a GPS - and you certainly dont need a GPS with OS mapping.

For in car use, what you need is a unit with a good big screen visible in all lighting conditions, solid mounts, 12 volt hookup, superb road mapping and autorouting, big, quick menus, excellent "through the screen" accuracy, and loud, clear voice prompts. A PDA may offer some, but not all of these - at least not to the standard of TomTom (you have to use one to appreciate how excellent the TomTom's are). At the very least with a PDA/bluetooth combo you have two units that you need to keep simulaneously powered up in your vehicle.

Dont take my word for it though,

Navigator 5 bluetooth customer reviews

By contrast...

TomTom Go 300 customer reviews

IMO, if you want a PDA, get a PDA. A PDA/GPS combo for in car use is just about accepatble, but if you want a GPS for walking, get a dedicated unit.

[fastbreak]

Sorry, I must have missed this thread, not tending to frequent the gadgets forum.

I agree with Martyn on the mapping issues for an outdoors-use GPS. I have used the Silva Multi Navigator since it came out (Well two of them to be honest, you don't want to know what happened to the first.

If you think GPS mapping capabilities are poor for the English countryside, try northern Kenya, or Spitzbergen

The multi-nav has always had superb signal aquisition and proximity, electronic compas, barometric altimeter, weather forecasting (quite useful) and an enormous range of routes, tracklogs and waypoints. It has also got the largest range of compatible grid systems going.

It works from minus 25C to +70C (my own experience confirms at least minus 20C to +50C. and will get a fix in dense rainforest.

For international wilderness use, I think they are still about as good as you get. Personally, I find the barometric altimeter rather unnecessary if you can get a 3D position. Largely because on a wilderness journey, calibrating the thing is a nightmare. Trig points aren't available in most of the places I travel. For anyone who hasn't used this sort of facility, the "altitude" reading is derived from the change in air pressure as you go up or down in elevation. Unfortunately, barometric pressure changes like the weather

Consequently you have to calibrate the barometric altitude regularly with a reference... which is usualy a GPS 3D altitude reading on a relatively flat position

I have never seen anyone use the Multinavigator in the UK, other than me, but in wilderness areas, where maps are pointless and the basic facilities of this instrument are crucial, they are common.

Personally, I find the Multi-nav coupled to a 1:25,000 OS map as good a system as I could want in the UK. You can up and down-load waypoints and tracks from the Fugawa OS software maps.

If you are going to spend a fair amount of time in Wilderness areas, I think this is still an instrument to consider seriously, particularly as the prices have dropped. You can get one now for about £200. If you are unlikely to travel much away from relatively civilised parts of Europe, or the USA, I wouldn't recommend it.

Not much use for an in car system anyway

The 60 series Garmin that Martyn discusses, particularly the new 60CSx, which is the upgrade of Martyn's device has better satellite capture than the Multinavigator now, particularly in steep valleys or mountainous areas, but in other respects is basically what the Multi-nav was 5 years ago, plus mapping capabilities. It is of course a lot more expensive and has the ability to function as an in-car system too.

Have fun

Mike

[Gailainne]

The site has moved the location of the zip files, here is the new link
http://www.smc.org.uk/ContourMaps.htm

[meles meles]

For an ikkle overview of navigashun systems 'oomans, go to http://landnavigation.co.uk/index.ph..._position=32:8

[Joules]

Cones, we just bought a Dell x51v PDA... Excellent machine, but I would rather have a separate GPS. You can normally hook up even an Etrex to the PDA via a serial cable (as we have done on the Tosh E800 PDA) then run TomTom. Get the benefit of 40hrs battery life on the Etrex, then just use the PDA to confirm a map location.

ps
I still carry a conventional compass, and if I find one, a Micromap.

[Cones]

Thanks all.

I'm still undecided on what I want.

What do you all think is the best car only GPS? I may need a separate patch antenna though as I have a heated/Solar IR windscreen.
I have to admit that I like the TomTom units I have seen so far. I don't need bluetooth, phone or MP3 as the car already has that.

Then a separate hand held GPS only for outside stuff. Like a Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx.

Thanks

Mark

[Martyn]

Having recently bought a land rover, I've discovered another benefit of the GPSmap60CS - because it takes OS maps (either the free ones posted above - thanks for the link) or the newer proprietry OS maps from Garmin, the unit can navigate an off-roader through the streets of a town or city and then still give good navigation accross fields, farm tracks or green lanes etc which do not normally appear on street maps.

Any dedicated road GPS will stop navigating when the road runs out, but with the garmin OS mapping GPS it carries on being useful, especially if you plot in your off-road route as waypoints onto the OS map beforehand.

Not something that is useful for everyone, but for off-road vehicles it's brilliant.

I've hard-mounted mine onto the dash of my defender using a steel RAM mount.



The RAM cradle can be used with a large variety of steel articulation arms and baseplates and is absolutely rock solid.

Sattelite acqiusition is fast and accuracy is excellent.

[Gailainne]

This is a very nice middle spec unit doesnt have the colour just mono screen but does have the maps gpsmap-60

[mojofilter]

I have a Garmin 76C, but I was pretty dissapointed with the look of the Topo2 maps, so I bought MemoryMap instead, and its simply amazing. Realtime gps mapping with proper OS maps on either the PDA or Laptop, and it is fully compatible with the Garmin for up or downloading marks and tracks etc....

I've been meaning to do a review for a wee while, I should try to get round to it....

A screenshot.

[Martyn]

I have a Garmin 76C, but I was pretty dissapointed with the look of the Topo2 maps, so I bought MemoryMap instead, and its simply amazing. Realtime gps mapping with proper OS maps on either the PDA or Laptop, and it is fully compatible with the Garmin for up or downloading marks and tracks etc....

I've been meaning to do a review for a wee while, I should try to get round to it....

A screenshot.

Can they be downloaded onto the actual GPS unit mojo?

[mojofilter]

Can they be downloaded onto the actual GPS unit mojo?

No, not onto the Garmin units, Garmin units are designed so that you can only use their propriety maps. You could however use the memory map to create your routes by simply clicking on the map and export the waypoints to the GPS.

Out in the boat, I now use my PDA with a bluetooth GPS receiver, to get exactly what you see in the above screenie.


You can also do extremely cool things like 3d flythroughs, fancy a sail through the islands on loch lomond?



[flash]http://s4.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/stuartyr/memap1.flv[/flash]

[Dai]

Memory Map is good as is Fugawi. We used it to plan and set out the British Off Road Championship, Baja GB and The Hillrally and it was spot on. Some late changes were simple to alter and updated maps can be printed off for all the marshals. It seems to be a bit more user friendly than MM imo.

[Marcus]

Found this one earlier today - maybe of use to someone ?

Garmin Compatible Maps

Cheers

Mark