Local Knife Laws

[odalwolf86]

I've been pondering this for a while. In the U.S., knife laws vary from state to state and sometimes even from county to county and city to city. Right now, if I wanted to, I could go to a local grocery store with my balisong and Boker auto in my pocket, and it would be legal. If I were in a state such as Texas or Connecticut however, the legality would be a much different story. Even if I went into Atlanta, the law would change a bit.
I guess what I'm trying to ask is: How much power does local government in the United Kingdom have regarding something like the EDC knife laws? For example, there is something called the Free State project going on in New Hampshire. Basically, like minded people gather in enough numbers in one state and change the laws drastically to their liking. Would it be possible for a county like Cornwall or Devon or a larger jurisdiction such as Wales to say: "You know what, we don't like the knife laws here, so we're gonna change them for this county or area." How much power does more local government in Britain hold? I am fascinated by both the similarities and the differences between our two legal systems and political process.

If this is too political, I apologize in advance.

[Jerry Cornelius]

In a word, none. Our local government is essentially entirely a creature of statute, ie, it exercises powers given to it by Parliament. Its basically executive only. It can't amend the criminal law in its area at all, other than in a very limited sense that it can chose to designate or not designate parts of its areas for some "optional" powers to apply (a ban on drinking alcohol in the street for example)

I am pretty hazy on the powers of the scottish parliament (and will get my wrist deservedly slapped for even thinking of it in the context of local government !) but I think it could act as you suggest. In fact I think it has, although alas only to tighten the law still further. This would make sense as Scotland has always had its own legal system.

Your bottom up political culture is, sadly, quite alien to us in the UK now.

[Coresect]

The UK has a land area of 93,278 square miles, and a population of about 61,113,205, whilst the USA has a land area of 3,539,225 square miles and a population of 307,212,123. I think the two countries cannot be easily compared (I seem to recall reading somewhere that France is about as big as Texas..!), so perhaps if we compare America with Europe then we do effectively have differing laws (and languages), and each country can to some extent have its own laws. In recent years these countries have "banded together" to gather political and economic world force and in doing so have begun to make their laws uniform (satisfying powers-that-be, and alienating many of their own populations). There are certainly benefits and disadvantages in this trend, I won't suggest my own theories as as we all know, politics are not discussed on this forum, and I for one am grateful for this, it means we don't argue, and we can happily chat about pieces of sharp metal.

Just between you and me, and I truly hope to not offend anyone, "bottom up political culture" does not exist anywhere in the world.

[pteron]

I'm dichotomised about devolution of lawmaking. I lived in the US for a while and it was frustrating as hell to find that a community of a few hundred had made something illegal that was legal in the rest of the state. On the other hand, in principle I believe that the community should be able to decide what they want and don't want.

For instance, the community where I lived banned tractor trailer lorries. Completely. No dispensation for access. Nothing. My worldly goods arrived in a container which had to be unpacked and packed into smaller lorries to be delivered. A ridiculous waste of effort and money.

[651bobby]

They certainly couldn't make the law softer, and I don't see how they could make it tighter without removing EDC completely.

[cockroach]

There are local by-laws, but I've never seen one relating to knives, they're usually things like no cycling, no dog poop, no radios or whatever in a certain area.

[chalkball]

I am pretty hazy on the powers of the scottish parliament (and will get my wrist deservedly slapped for even thinking of it in the context of local government !) but I think it could act as you suggest. In fact I think it has, although alas only to tighten the law still further. This would make sense as Scotland has always had its own legal system.

I suppose one example would be the Scottish Parliament banning (or planning to ban) air rifles, whilst no such ban exists in England and Wales. And didn't I read on this forum something about Scottish laws regarding internet sales of knives being more restrictive than the rest of G.B?

[intrepid1]

Hi
Please feel free to correct & amend the detail below as it is not fact but what I remember & can piece together.
From the time I lived in the US, I recollect that the strength of law was in this order.
1.Federal
2.State
3.Local county.

As far as gun & knife law were concerned, the local laws could be made that were opposing State & Federal law
but if challenged & proven in court (contradicted state law or infringing individuals amendment rights) they could be overturned.
This is / was expensive, so often required the might of NRA or similar to support the cause or were often left unchallenged due to individuals not being able to afford the cost.
The US is a unique example supporting the right for individuals to keep & bear arms.
The most heavily legally armed concentration of people on the planet live there

The size of some US states swallow up the biggest countries in Europe.
The UK can't really function as a comparison being so small & relatively population conjested. The local law is the UK law.

Scotland would like to do many things. The possible banning air rifles was a subject mentioned.
I suggest that UK laws would dearly love to ban or put on firearms license all air weapons. You only have to look at the UK 2004 ban on SCGC weapons known commonly as the Brocock ban to see what a disaster that was.
5,764 voluntarily placed on owners firearms certificate.
1500 handed in for destruction.
25,000 stilll unaccounted for ! Not a good result then !
The Scottish parliament could learn something from that...but they won't & another unenforceable farce will unfold. Banning a million air weapons... I'd like to see that work.

What you can compare with US is that no physically manned state lines exist as with countries within mainland Europe.
The dutch have very strict knife & gun legislation yet they border Belgium & France which are far more lax.
Yet, free movement of individual is allowed.
Neighbours a few hundred metres away can have certain weapons & others nothing.
That would be like New York or Chicago having an out right small arms ban, yet a trip just a few miles down the road to Indiana, there is concealed carry weapon reciprocity with dozens of other states.

All that said,taking & banning firearms & knives does not prevent that random rogue element in society committing horrendous attrocities as we have seen in the UK recently.
Banning guns & knives will not prevent fruit loops, even those who have previously been deemed fit to posess firearms legally from murdering.
Had it not been a gun or knife, it would be a stick or a rock or whatever else man since the dawn of time could get his hands on.

Atb
Darren

[Corso]

Hi
25,000 stilll unaccounted for ! Not a good result then !

where did this figure come from?

[intrepid1]

The SCGC ban encompassed revolvers & air rifles made from 1983 ( Ensign, then saxby & palmer, then Brocock to the ban in 2004.)
The number mentioned is from a factory / import source who used to service the revolvers until they technically became S5.
The numbers are pessimistic I have been assured.

Darren