Forging a clip point Bowie to shape

[Kevin]

My forge is now set back up after a long absence.

This is something I started today, ..my first project in a while.

I dont know if anyones interested.?.

I will post my progress anyway

My attempts to forge a clip point 7 inch blade bowie forged from a 3/4 inch diameter bar of 52100 steel. ..should be about 11 1/2 inches overall length when I finished.


First, the bar is flattened, to about a 1/4 thick and and 1 1/4 inch wide.



Then a spear point is forged

The point is forged downwards so the bottom edge is flat..this will eventualy be the cutting edge

[Kevin]

A 'heel' is formed with the hammer, resting the steel against a sharp edge of the anvil. This forms the transition between the ricasso and blade, and is where the plungs line will be established. Blows have to be pretty accurate as I dont want the hammer to hit the ricasso and deform it.





The edge is formed and at the same time, a taper is forged towards the point.




The clip is then formed with the edge. Hammering from ricasso to point raises the point and from point to ricasso lowers it..so its a bit of fine tuning with the hammer to get it just where I want it.



The bar is then cut leaving a 3 inch stub which I then forge out to form a 5 inch tang...I will eventualy thread the end and screw a pommel cap on.

The knife will now be normalised three times to reduce any stresses then annealed before grinding.

Providing my grinding and heat treatment is not a failure!, I will post more later if anyones interested.

[ugug]

Thanks Kev

[JohanB]

Ive been told before but, can you tell me what normalizing means ?

Thanks,

Johan

[ggfh666]

Thanks for showing the different steps in the shaping.

[Kevin]

Ive been told before but, can you tell me what normalizing means ?

Thanks,

Johan

I am discussing basic carbon steels here,the ones commonly used to forge a blade...I dont know enough about the stainless varieties.

Basicaly, 'normalising' is a method that relieves any uneven stresses and refines the grain structure that may have occurred during the forging process (highly likely), or stock removal proces (possible uneven stresses from the grinding rather than anlarged crystal form).

When you forge steel, and particularly when forge welding, the crystaline structure of the steel can grow as a direct result of the heat.

A simple test:......Take two test pieces of steel and heat them both past critical temperature ( past non magnetic) a few times....harden one piece of steel (dont temper it), then snap the steel in half (take care and wear safety goggles/visor and gloves etc as protection against flying chards of steel!!), you will see a dark gray coloured course grain structure..it almost resembles cast steel (to me anyway).

With the second piece of steel, go through three normalisation processes and snap it to look at the grain.You will see a BIG difference in grain size. If done properly , it will be a smooth silky texture and a light grey colour.

The course grain can be seen with the naked eye, but the fine grain may need a magnifying glass to be seen.

To get the best performance and edge holding from a knife, the grain structure needs to be fine.

To normalise is very easy......Slowly heat the steel to a point just where a magnet is not attracted, remove it from the heat and let it air cool (still air) until its black (no redness), then repeat two more times...thats it.


'Annealing' is a similar process, but instead of air cooling, the steel is cooled very very slowly.....I usualy bury the blade in wood ash or a cooling forge. This softens and de stresses the steel and in some cases is a preparatory treatment to heat treating some steels.

'Normalising' really does pay dividends when heat treating....and is a good insurance against blades warping (especialy longer ones).

But do the tests yourself and make your own conclusions

Hope this helps explain your question.


There is a LOT information out there which goes into a lot more technical details than I can....I can only just about grasp it myself...but its interesting stuff if you want to learn more.

[PS_Bond]

That's a good, er, blow-by-blow account Kev. Now - how do you stop the spine of the blade kinking up just forward of the ricasso when you forge the bevels in? The preform doesn't go far enough back to prevent it...

[Kevin]

That's a good, er, blow-by-blow account Kev. Now - how do you stop the spine of the blade kinking up just forward of the ricasso when you forge the bevels in? The preform doesn't go far enough back to prevent it...

I think I know what you mean....how do you keep the spine straight just in front of the ricasso?
This is how I do it:

You know where the underside of the ricasso is (just before the heel).....Lay the blade across the width of the anvil so the bottom flat of the ricasso is up tight against the anvil corner (the heel and ricasso acting as a 90 degree angle aganst the anvil edge).
I use a 4 lb hammer, and strike the spine so half the hammer would hit above the anvil and the other half just off (does that make sense?)...not only will it bring the spine down to straight but it will also help further form the bottom of the ricasso and make a nice 90 angle....as with most things...its easier to show than explain.

If the spine is curving mid way , I lay the heel down and at the angle I think the blade should be resting on the anvil (but its not cos its kinked up!)...then one hit on the spine where the kink is will bring it back down.

Localise the heat where you want to straighten kinks helps prevent it kinking elsewhere....and correct at the first opportunity

[Kevin]

I have been watching and studying several videos/dvds of well known makers recently...Bill Moran,Charlie Ochs and Ed Fowler.

Its interesting to see that there is no one way or style to do things (but I knew that). There are so many different ways to forge (Charlie Ochs starts at the tang)....there are also many different ways to grind.

A flat platen is not neccesary, ...Bill Moran in his video did all his grinding on a wheel, as does Charlie Ochs......not grinding hollow grinds, but grinding flat/convex grinds.

I tend to like the style and the finish it gives..its not so surgical as a pure flat grind, and maybe not as perfect, but its a hand finish which I like. So I experimented with this blade (and a few others)....
Where else my flat platen was used 95% of the time, ....its now used about 25% of the time or less.

I let the blade anneal over night then ground it this morning. I never finish a knife on a grinder, I always finish by hand, so thats where I am now.
The knife has not yet been hardened, but I spent a couple of hours going through the grits to a 600..all the lines run lengthways.
This 52100 seems to air harden and it takes forever to get the scratches out, but I know if I dont do it now , it will be more difficult after heat treatment...as AFTER tempering, I am expecting this blade to be in the region of a 62/63 Rc!



Next, I will stamp my makers mark, then triple harden, cooling to room temp in between.
This blade will have a false clip/edge, but rather than file/grind that in now, I will wait till after HT,to prevent oveheating the point.

[PS_Bond]

Yeah, but Charlie starts with an angle grinder and then uses a 3" contact wheel... With everyone else saying "ya gotta have bigger wheels", this was somewhat refreshing. Do you have some DVDs I've missed?

Good explanation with the post-ricasso hump, BTW - I need to hit it harder is all.

[Kevin]

[QUOTE=PS_Bond] Do you have some DVDs I've missed?

QUOTE]

I dont know what ones you have?..but I have a fair few .
Moran and Fowler are my most recent addition.

What ones do you have?

[PS_Bond]

Bearing in mind I only do DVDs -
Gene's cable damascus pair
Wayne Goddard's cable damascus (nominally, if I ever get it back Colin :p)
Johnny Stout's hollow grinding
Charlie Ochs' Forging the Ox Forge bowie
Got a couple of Bill Eps ones en route too.

[MushiSushi]

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooowieeeeeeee ...... dontcha mean?

[MushiSushi]

nice booooowie btw Kev ... except that sharp transition where nasty things can grow ..... i much prefer a gentle transition for ease of cleaning and maintenance

[jbaron]

hi kev i really like the shape of that booowie it looks super rclean. So are you going to do the 3 day quench, that ed fowler suggests? I just got a 3ft by 1 inch rod of 52100 my questions are is it a nightmare to forge and grind? i'm also interested in the smiths you mention that use wheels when i was down doc prices he had a water wheel machine not slow turning but really fast turning and water just sprayed out is this similar to what they use?