Hidden tang or full tang

[Dave Barker]

the wrong thread to talk about this Trond, but you don't need to replace the shellac at all. You just heat the other blade and push it home, let it harden ( about 3 minutes in water and done) Epoxy is good, but dead messy, and once its warmed up to 70 it becomes soft and never rehardens again.

The question about the tang type is because one doesn't see many scandinavian bladesmiths make them.. Tradition is one thing, but is there another reason. Has it to do just with how it looks or with corrosion as Keith said. Granted a full tang can be extremely decorative, but if it corrodes..... what then.

A hidden tang also has it's limitations I'm sure, but I would suggest that a hidden tang is slightly stronger just because there are less joins.... Just an opinion.

[MushiSushi]

Epoxy is good, but dead messy

what on earth are you doing with it dave? I've used many different epoxies as well as all sorts of other resins and adhesives and I don't find it messy at all.

[shing]

Of course a full tang is best, I would rely on steel over wood, stag or plastic any day. Corrosion is an issue but only if the knife is not properly maintained or constructed in the first place. A full tang is more usable even when the handle is broken because you can use it as it is or wrap it with cloth, with a hidden tang, you have to find something that can be used as a handle and find someway to secure it in the field.

[Dave Barker]

Mushy.... remember hidden tang blades mean that the hole has to be filled with expoxyso that the tang is completely enclosed. when you stick the blade into the hole full of epoxy there is an amout of........ well mess.....

Shing:

IS it?

It is rare to need to carry out repair on a hidden tang when made properly. There is one join and one join only, most shafts are totally maintainance free apart from a coat of oil once in a blue moon, there are no metal pins or rivits to cause blisters ( as mentioned in an earler thread about the woodlore).

I agree there is more metal, but does this neccessarily make it better. I personally think that this is a horses for courses question.....( even if it was me that started it.)

[PS_Bond]

OK, but a hidden tang can also go through the handle. AIUI, the traditional (?) method of fixing puukkos (sp?) is to peen the end of the tang over a washer?

[Dave Barker]

Here Pete..... I'd forgotten that bit!!

They are also fixed by a screw ( or they can be)..

[MushiSushi]

Mushy.... remember hidden tang blades mean that the hole has to be filled with expoxyso that the tang is completely enclosed. when you stick the blade into the hole full of epoxy there is an amout of........ well mess.....

Shirley (obligatory Airplane joke) you have the same problem using a thick shellac gloop? Sounds to me like you are misgauging it. Same thing when I have glued blocks of wood together, if you gauge the glue right and clamp it well, there isn't much mess or cleaning required. I recently glued up a big block of maple (made my mum a custom knife block) using methacrylate and what squeezed out the seams was negligable.

[Dave Barker]

The shellac when done by heating is easy.. you just wait for it to cool and snap it off with a decent pair of pliers.

As for the epoxy, it is kind of hard to gauge, mind you meths and a cloth soon clear it up.

[shing]

I agree a properly made knife when used for it's intended purpose should not suffer any failure be they hidden or full tang. The question should perhaps be if I wanted the strongest knife, which construction will provide the ultimate strengh and its the full tang knife because you are holding a bigger bit of steel than in any hidden tang knife.

[MushiSushi]

The shellac when done by heating is easy.. you just wait for it to cool and snap it off with a decent pair of pliers.

As for the epoxy, it is kind of hard to gauge, mind you meths and a cloth soon clear it up.

using a lowtac decorator's tape like "kleenedge"(it doesn't contain the like masking tape does, so doesn't attack carbon steel), dry fit the blade, tape the blade as close to the handle as possible, place tape on the top of the handle where the blade goes in, take out the blade, put in your adhesive (if you have a snug fit you shouldn't need much, replace the blade, wipe away excess and wipe with alcohol, and remove tape, nice clean fit

[Dave Barker]

Can be hard to get the blade mounted to flow with the curves of the shaft with tape. I'll stick with shellac... thanks anyway

[Sajuma]

My opinion is that both have good and bad qualites. I preffer hidden tang for few reasons. ( I'm talking from Puukko side of view)

Hidden tang is lighter and more pleasant to use than full tang.
Wooden knife handle does not give you fost bites to your hand when working in below -25 celsius.
Often unstab. wood is "alive", it moves, warps due temperature, moisture ext. and in hidden tang, maker can take this in account by putting some leather spacers between wood and ferrules (bolsters).
Wooden handle is in most cases more ergonomic than full tang handle, it gives maker usually more "room" for imagination.
One has to take accout that knives breake normaly from blade. If you dont leave stress raisers, like 90 degree angles, in hidden tang, it can be as strong as full tang. Ofcource you dont hit anything with Puukko. Axe is for hitting things.
:

Juha

[MushiSushi]

I wasn't suggesting wrapping the whole thing, just a strip where the blade meets the handle and a little tape around the hole. How much do you get squirting out, again?

[Trond]

I am with Mushi on this one, and you do not need to heat the tang either, with the (small) risk of ruining the heat treatment.
Shellack are for beginners ROTFLMAO
Trond

[Dave Barker]

: REALLY!!

Then I suggest that you speak to the likes of Knut Dahl ( probably the best pauting expert in the country), Olav H. Wåle, Finn Gaute Hornslien ( probably the guy with the biggest range of knives on the net) I translated his net side and got a load of info on he way.


There is absolutely NO chance of ruining the heat treatment if you use your brain ( do Bergensere have one??? LOL) and protect the blade from heat transfer by wrapping a damp cloth around it. It is only the bottom 1-2 cm that need to be warmed and these melt the shellack.

It is more environmentally friendly for one thing, has a bearing weight of equal to 2 tonne epoxy,and is reusable..... meaning that you can remove the blade ( if need be by warming it up in boiling water ( the blade) so that it loosens and you can get the blade out. you do not need to clean the hole, just cut the tang of the new blade warm it and push it in..... 3 minutes and the knife is back in action. In stead of 20 minutes to scrape the epoxy out mixing time and then having to wait either 15 miutes ( if you use the fast stuff) or 18 hours for normal.

What is it are you lot such luddites that you are willing to change and try different things?

Don't knock it til you've tried it!