Hidden tang or full tang

[PS_Bond]

What is it are you lot such luddites that you are willing to change and try different things?

ROTFL!

I'm not sure that is the right word to use... A luddite wouldn't have progressed from using ground up insects to modern epoxy resins

(which is not to say it doesn't work, naturally!)

[MushiSushi]

I must be a luddite then ... but I think i'd prefer an Epoxy or Methacrylate to shellac for the risk of leaving it out in the sun on a hot day, going to chop with it, and then wondering why my companion is hopping around with a piece of steel sticking in his back-side.
But I guess it's colder where you are Dave :p
I'd trust Epoxy or Methacrylate over Shellac, although Kudos for you for the environmental aspect.

[Dave Barker]

Ok. Lets look at it this way.

Heat always goes towards the thinest edge that will say the end of the tang. It is here that the change in colour first caused by warming would be visable.

As soon as there is the slightest sign of colour change then the tang is hot enough to melt the crushed shellack. The temperature will never reach temperatures high enough to ruin the HT.

As for it melting in the sun.. BUll****, for the sun to warm the blade shaft and tang enough for it to create temperatures enough to melt/soften the shellack I would suggest that the air temp would need to me so high that you wouldn't want to be out anyway.

As for strength, this opens the way for another debate... Where does the strength come from, is it not the steel and Iron together with the way the blade sites in the shaft. If the tang is made conial and the hole likewise, then the tang sits so tight that the fixing substance is actually irrelevant.

Before the days of nail files etc the holes were filled with a combination of fixing substance and saw dust ( 40 % dust to chemical if I remember). This was mainly done to cover the huge hole made. I saw a knife being made here by a guy who used an 8mm drill bit to holeout the shaft , the blade fitted yes, but what a mess!

Granted that on full tang knives the tang is not conial, and there is a need for strength in the glue being used, maybe here epoxy is enough, but we are talking about HIDDEN TANG knives not FULL TANG.

By forming the tang to a poin at the end and fixing it by hitting the shaft onto it with a rubber mallet, the point acts as a nail and sits fast as you like.

Horses for sourses maybe, but epoxy des have it's uses, on fatty oily woods like vera wood, australian blackwood etc epoxy [U]may have an advantage.

The thing that never ceases to amaze me is how people can say that something is rubbish without ven giving it a chance.... What is the worse that can happen guys..... 250grams of shellack will glue towards 70 knives..... How many does a 250g tube of epoxy manage?? and what is the cost.
:confused:

[PS_Bond]

As soon as there is the slightest sign of colour change then the tang is hot enough to melt the crushed shellack. The temperature will never reach temperatures high enough to ruin the HT.

Burning in of wood handles is something done elsewhere too. The usual recommendation is to wrap the blade in a damp cloth to help alleviate potential problems.

...for the sun to warm the blade shaft and tang enough for it to create temperatures enough to melt/soften the shellack I would suggest that the air temp would need to me so high that you wouldn't want to be out anyway.

Perhaps. But what is the softening temperature for shellac? Bearing in mind the daytime temperatures in, say, Iraq at the moment.

Horses for sourses maybe, but epoxy des have it's uses, on fatty oily woods like vera wood, australian blackwood etc epoxy [U]may have an advantage.

Actually, the oilier the wood, the more potential problems with epoxy. Cocobolo and lignum vitae, for example, are swines to get epoxy to stick to, and more or less require the mechanical fit that adequate roughing provides.

The thing that never ceases to amaze me is how people can say that something is rubbish without ven giving it a chance.... What is the worse that can happen guys..... 250grams of shellack will glue towards 70 knives..... How many does a 250g tube of epoxy manage?? and what is the cost.

I can get hold of epoxy fairly easily. From past experience, shellac is a bit more difficult to obtain - and, TBH, I'm more likely to try cutlers resin as I stand a chance of being able to gather the pine resin myself. I'm not too good at catching beetles that don't live here

Ultimately - as with big knives, small knives, fixed blade or folders, it all comes down to individual preference. And that perhaps is where it should be left...

Oh - harking back to the original point of the thread (which seems to have been lost in the sands of acrimonious time) - I forgot one major advantage of hidden tang over full tang: A hidden tang blade uses less steel than a full tang blade of equivalent length. This is less of an issue nowadays, possibly, as we can usually buy enough steel to keep ourselves happy.

[Martyn]

I'm seeing a lot of threads with an aggressive "edge" in the converstion recently. It seems to involve the same people discussing the same kind of knives. The tone of conversation here determines how people view this site. I'm only going to say this once, if you cant play nice, play somewhere else!

That is a HUGE hint. Please take it.

I dont like closing threads, I much rather people moderate themselves. Stop for 10 seconds and think how your comments are going to be read by the 1000's of people surfing this site, then make your point in a congenial manner.