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  1. #1
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    Question Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival Tool

    Full Disclosure:
    Chris Caine is a personal friend of mine. My company, Solomon Bushcraft also manages Chris's website and sales of the tools on his behalf. If there is any bias in this post I apologise.

    Now that's out of the way!

    Almost everyone here has heard of the survival legend Lofty Wiseman and most have seen his tool. There has been a fair amount of confusion regarding his tool, the Truway's tool and Chris Caine Survival Tool. I'll try and clear as much of that confusion up as possible.

    Lofty designed his tool first, based on his many years experience as Chief Survival Instructor for the SAS. Lofty's tool is made by Samuel Staniforth Ltd in Sheffield.

    Then the Trueway's Tool came along. This tool is effectively the same as Lofty's tool, but again with a different handle shape. This handle is closer to Lofty's original. According to the Trueways forum, when shown the tool, Lofty said that this is the tool he was trying to design in the beginning.

    A year or so after Lofty designed his tool, Chris Caine visited him for a chat (they are good friends) and they got to talking about the tool. Lofty then drew up an updated design of the tool and handed it over to Chris requesting that he continue with the design, passing the torch on so to speak. These updated designs became the Chris Caine Survival Tool, originally manufactured by A Wright & Son Ltd (Original Edition still available) and now by Samuel Staniforth Ltd. The main difference between the two is the handle shape.

    The 3 tools are completely separate.
    • Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool: The blade is made from 6mm thick,AISI 1055 / BS EN9 steel. The blade is hardened to RC 54.
    • Chris Caine Survival Tool: The blade is made from 5mm thick, 75 Carbon Steel with a rockwell rating of 51-53 and has a full tang.
    • Trueways Survival Tool: The blade is 6.6mm thich tapered to 4mm at the heel of the handle. The steel is 75CR1, hardened to 55-57RC.



    After using the Chris Caine Survival Tool on one of Chris's 3-day courses, I believe is the better tool, though only by a whisker, than Lofty's Tool (Disclosure: I sell Chris and Lofty's tools). It's in a completely different league to the Trueways Tool in my opinion. BUT don't take my word for it, try them out yourself. Everyone has their own preference.

    Interesting Fact that only a handful of people know:

    John "Lofty" Wiseman actuallyhas nothing to do with Trueways Survival School! He never founded the school as is commonly believed or owned any shares in the business and he doesn't teach courses for Trueways.

    So why is his name and photo plastered all over their website?

    Because he was once a guest lecturer at Trueways and Trueways Survival School registered Lofty's name as a trademark, allowing them to use him name on all their products e.g. the SAS Survival app.

    Companies House shows that Trueway's Survival School was actually founded in 1989 by Chris Caine as the Guildford Survival School, which later changed it's name to Trueway's Survival School. It was Chris who brought Lofty into Trueway's as a guest lecturer, but that is where Lofty's involvement ended. Over the years Chris disliked how his partners were treating him and the business and in 2009 sold his interest in Trueways. He subsequently formed the Chris Caine Survival School and also Chris Caine Survival USA.

    If anyone has any questions regarding Chris Caine or the tool, I'll be happy to answer them as best I can
    Last edited by M_Parker; 06-12-11 at 01:19 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival T

    Quote Originally Posted by M_Parker View Post
    [B]

    If anyone has any questions regarding Chris Caine or the tool, I'll be happy to answer them as best I can
    Out of interest, how big is Chris Caines Tool?

  3. #3
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    Re: Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival T

    The overall length is 440mm and the blade length is 270mm. Blade thickness is 5mm and handle thickness is 25mm. It weight 750g.

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    Re: Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival T

    Quote Originally Posted by M_Parker View Post
    The overall length is 440mm and the blade length is 270mm. Blade thickness is 5mm and handle thickness is 25mm. It weight 750g.


    Thank you....

  5. #5
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    Re: Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival T

    He has just released (on the 2nd December 2011) a new smaller tool with a 200mm long blade (340mm overall). Chris Caine Companion Survival Knife, also made by Samuel Staniforth Ltd.

    Last edited by M_Parker; 06-12-11 at 01:42 AM.

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    Re: Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival T

    Quote Originally Posted by stuart m View Post
    Out of interest, how big is Chris Caines Tool?
    boy at the back stop sniggering!!!
    sent from my LAPTOP using 1 finger and 12 bottles of BLÅ THOR

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    Re: Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival T

    Quote Originally Posted by stuart m View Post
    Out of interest, how big is Chris Caines Tool?
    Quote Originally Posted by the laird View Post
    boy at the back stop sniggering!!!
    Sniggers!

    Thanks Michael, always interesting to know a bit of background info.
    Last edited by shr1mp; 06-12-11 at 01:59 AM. Reason: Edited for a more family orientated reply

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    Re: Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival T

    What's the difference between the military and non military versions, apart from price?

    Ps, you should check the spelling of your website in your signature

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    Re: Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival T

    Joking aside M_P, the three knives you show there are all but exactly the same, yeah sure there's a bit of jiggery pokkery around the handles but that is all semantics, that design has already been designed mate, and has been for a long, long time, it would be nice if any one of them could actually design something if they are to say they have done so, no slight on you of course, you are just the seller, they should get their acts together though...

  10. #10
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    Re: Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival T

    What's the difference between the military and non military versions, apart from price?
    The handle is a grey micarta instead of black and the blade is Teflon coated. Other than that, they are the same
    Last edited by M_Parker; 06-12-11 at 02:45 AM.

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    Re: Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival T

    that design has already been designed mate, and has been for a long, long time
    I completely agree Stuart, the only difference between them really is the handle and I believe the grinds are different too, but I'm not completely sure.

    The parang has been around for hundreds of years. I showed my granddad the knives (he served in Borneo at the same time as Lofty) and he said "I like what they've done with it, looks nicer than what we had, but it's just a parang at the end of the day."

    I've only personally tested Chris's tool and I loved it. There are a few comparison videos where it's field tested against a Kabar Kukri and a Gransfors Small Forest Axe, it's worth a look -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuhbYmhbW_g
    Last edited by M_Parker; 06-12-11 at 02:45 AM.

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    Re: Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival T

    I've got one of Chris's tools and have used it quite a lot in the woods. I don't take it out with me anymore; it's just too big and cumbersome.

    In my opinion there's no need to have such a large handle designed to take 2 hands. For me, the idea of using lots of effort to cut stuff is silly when you can take a little bit longer and let the blade do the work especially when the blade is so effective at chopping. The effect of having such a long handle means in transitions of grip, adjusting cutting angles when carving etc makes it really "slow" and cumbersome. The idea that you only need one tool and this is it only works if this is all you've got rather than choosing in advance what you will take.

    I have an Ontario RTAK 2 as well and that blade does everything the Chris Caine Tool does but chops 80% as well but finer stuff is so much easier and it's a LOT "faster" and manoeuverable.

    The reality for me is that I only take a Fallkniven A1 and a Bahco laplander out in the woods as my main tools now as you just don't need to be cutting up massive logs for shelter or fire making. I do take a back up blade and a leatherman.

    As a vehicle based, weight not critical, excursion then it would be useful to have around but it would not be part of my survival kit.

    The new smaller version looks much more interesting.

    Take care, Ben

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    Re: Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival T

    Sorry, I thought this was a comparrison between the knives (as per the thread title) but I don't think that this

    "After using the Chris Caine Survival Tool on one of Chris's 3-day courses, I believe is the better tool, though only by a whisker, than Lofty's Tool (Disclosure: I sell Chris and Lofty's tools). It's in a completely different league to the Trueways Tool in my opinion. BUT don't take my word for it, try them out yourself. Everyone has their own preference."

    can be described as any kind of "comparrison", even after declaring an association with CC. Adding "Try them yourself" is fine but not many people can afford £140+ for three different knives!!!! before making a choice. Thats why people read the usual fair and un-biased knife reviews on this forum!!

    You seem to have had a little "rocky" start on this forum and some comments on your thread re - Noble knives were a bit harsh to say the least. But a thread like this is not going to help, as all I see here is an advert for your webstore and the products that you sell !!
    "An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" Ernest Hemmingway

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    Re: Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival T

    Quote Originally Posted by stuart m View Post
    the three knives you show there are all but exactly the same, yeah sure there's a bit of jiggery pokkery around the handles but that is all semantics, that design has already been designed mate, and has been for a long, long time,
    True. The parang has also already been designed, so has the khukuri, and puukko, machete etc... It won't stop people coming up with thousands of slightly different versions of them. The reasons can be marketing related or just 'cos someone wanted to make a subtly different handle etc. etc. What's different here? Just 'cos you stick you name into the marketing of a knife, doesn't mean you have to reinvent the wheel, Shirley? Most of the time it goes horribly wrong, anyway...
    Mr B. Wildered - If it's got moving parts, it's broken.
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    Re: Lofty Wiseman Survival Tool vs. Trueways Survival Tool vs. Chris Caine Survival T

    Quote Originally Posted by M_Parker View Post
    After using the Chris Caine Survival Tool on one of Chris's 3-day courses, I believe is the better tool, though only by a whisker, than Lofty's Tool (Disclosure: I sell Chris and Lofty's tools).
    Quote Originally Posted by M_Parker View Post
    I've only personally tested Chris's tool and I loved it.
    How can you make the first statement when you've only used one of them?

    I thought we were going to get a review or comparison but half of your post just seems to be about putting Trueways down.

 

 

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