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  1. #1
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    Heat Treat for 15N20 and 1075 Damascus ? and performance?

    I bet that there a lot you out there who have made lots of knives or whatever out of this combo, so I am hopping that someone can give me some advice (free preferably) as to a good heat treatment. This is my first time damasking this combo. I was thinking that if I quench in Oil that the 1075 would not harden enough, and if I quench in Water that I will jack up the 15N20.
    Also does anyone have a sense of how well 15N20 - 1075 Damascus holds up in terms of edge retention? Nickle is not a carbide forming alloying element and there is not enough free carbon to stay as cementite after quench (?) ... but nickle is very wear resistant by its self...
    I have been welding up a 5 lb billet (400 layers) of this stuff. I was thinking I was going to make a bunch of Chef's Knives with it, but now I am leaning towards maybe a sword or an axe... or both! Unless.....
    I appreciate any advice.
    Thank you,
    Nate

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    Re: Heat Treat for 15N20 and 1075 Damascus ? and performance?

    here's the datasheet for 15N20 http://www.uddeholm-strip.com/popup/...ring_steel.pdf
    It says 800C for austenising about halfway down the page.

    In my pre (modest) damascus days, I made a monosteel knife from this steel a while back to test the steel out, I hardened mine at mine at 810-815.
    Fully hardened it was HRC 62, I tempered it back to about 59/60 and was a wee bit chippy, I re-tempered to 57/57.5 and it was more stable. (
    I made another carving blade at the same time that now resides with a master woodcarver, he reports rolling on very hard woods, but no chipping

    1075 , I have only tried in UK equivelants, but it gets plenty hard enough, if you can't make it 60RC after quench I'd be amazed.

    Edge retention is not bad, just like 1075! Nothing outstanding, but fair for the majority of jobs.
    For damascus it's wonderful, for a small monosteel knife, it wouldn't be my first choice (I wish they made it in thick sections for big knives though... ) It is wonderfully tough...

    I'd be hellish cautious about water quenching 15N20, with the Cr in there... could be a wee 'tink!'
    I have tried several times to water quench the UK equivalent to 1075 (0.7Mn) in water and brine and had a varied success rate, proceed with caution!

    CG
    Last edited by Chris Grant; 15-12-11 at 11:16 PM.


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  3. #3
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    Re: Heat Treat for 15N20 and 1075 Damascus ? and performance?

    Cool Thanks for the info. I just noticed that the UBH 15N20 has 0.11% Cr and about 2% Ni, but the Admiral Steel 15N20 has no Cr and only 1.5% Ni..... Admiral Steel did the same thing with L6 a couple of years back enough people complained so they changed the name to 8670M its great stuff but its not L6.
    Nate
    Last edited by NathanSS; 16-12-11 at 09:20 AM.

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    Re: Heat Treat for 15N20 and 1075 Damascus ? and performance?

    Do not buy Admiral steel. As for your question, try austenizing at 1500, quenching in a proper fast oil like Parks 50 and tempering at 400. That should be a good starting place. Also be careful not to overdo the thermal cycles. Plain carbon steel like 10xx can supposedly get grain size to small for it to harden because it is a shallow hardeing steel to begin with. if you want to continue using this mix, next time you buy steel, buy some of Aldo's 1084 FG instead of 1075.
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    Re: Heat Treat for 15N20 and 1075 Damascus ? and performance?

    Why not buy from Admiral? Even though their L6 is an "alternative" it is still a really good steel. They can be kind of a pain in the rear some times, for example: two weeks and counting to ship my order, and their "15N20" is sold in a 8"x36" hardened and tempered sheet....
    Last edited by NathanSS; 16-12-11 at 09:18 AM.

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    Re: Heat Treat for 15N20 and 1075 Damascus ? and performance?

    Well, my personal experience with them was less satisfying than the other people I have dealt with. Serive was okay, but the steel was not up to the quality standards of some others. I have also heard a number of folks say "won't do that again" Why put up with that when there are others who will sell you exactly what you want/need with no hassle?
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanSS View Post
    Why not buy from Admiral? Even though their L6 is an "alternative" it is still a really good steel. They can be kind of a pain in the rear some times, for example: two weeks and counting to ship my order, and their "15N20" is sold in a 8"x36" hardened and tempered sheet....
    Erik Markman ees mijn hero beecuz he ees zo beek unt stronk!!
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    Re: Heat Treat for 15N20 and 1075 Damascus ? and performance?

    What's the manganese content of 1075?
    15n20 is not that deep hardening.
    I get good results with a hot fast oil bus previously to that some blades were not through hardening.
    I would chose a higher carbon partner to the 15n20 1095 works well in kitchen knives although it's lack of manganese means you a making silver/grey mix.
    I have used uk equiv 1075 (en42 cs70 etc) mixed with 15n20 to great effect on cutting comp knives .
    Harden at 800c (after normalisations) and tempering at 195c.
    please email me if you want to contact me ,my PM box just gets so full .
    owen@owenbush.co.uk

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    Re: Heat Treat for 15N20 and 1075 Damascus ? and performance?

    Cannot tell you on the 1075 but I have made some small Knives from 2mm 15N20.

    Some time ago I made a couple cupons from leftovers , hardened at progressive higher temps from 770-820C in 10C increments. Quenched in 60C canola oil. 2x normalized 1x hardened. Temper 3x 1h at 200C.

    After breaking and examining I liked the grain on the 780-790C best. These were also the hardest to break.

    The small knives hardened at 785C and tempered at 200C showed decent edge holding, get scary sharp and pass the brass rod test.

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    Re: Heat Treat for 15N20 and 1075 Damascus ? and performance?

    Thanks Owen,
    I had no idea that the Manganese content played a roll in how dark the etch will be. I will find a use for this billet, but I think I will use a different combo for my cutting knives. One more pass through the power hammer and I will start making it into stuff.

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    Re: Heat Treat for 15N20 and 1075 Damascus ? and performance?

    Owen: 1070 series steels are spec'd at 0.7 (0.6-0.9%) Manganese, the same for 1084 in most common varieties. The 1095 at my shop is MN at 0.3% at or near the same for the 15N20.

    Nathan: the manganese at that percentage increases hardenability too, along with a subjectively darker etch. Thin sections like knife blades may through harden unless you do something to prevent it. Some people like that sort of thing, some don't want it.
    Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if you look at it right...

  11. #11
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    Re: Heat Treat for 15N20 and 1075 Damascus ? and performance?

    Averaging out the differences in HT of the component steels gives remarkably similar requirements to HT for O1, which is how I treat it.

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  12. #12
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    Re: Heat Treat for 15N20 and 1075 Damascus ? and performance?

    Well, since this steel combination will make a very tough blade, but there will be no significant carbides after HT, I decided to forge up a single sword blade with this billet. I will post WIP pick as soon as the blade survives HT. It is a messer style and I did a light soak in lemon juice the pattern is pretty, its random and woody, but that is the way I like it.
    Will post pics soon.
    Last edited by NathanSS; 04-01-12 at 09:12 PM.

 

 

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