what have I missed when it comes to sebenzas?

[mantzao]

Well after never having any interest in sebenzas i may have been turned! I just keep going back to pictures of the insingo, theres just something special about the blade shape. I really cant afford one but just out of interest.... does anywhere in the uk sell them and if so how much are they? And can anyone compare the two sizes, maybe post a comparison shot with a sak/ukpk or something for scale?

No ukpk but this may be useful

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/...pic-comparison

[Ian Atkinson]

Framar is the UK distributer for them

http://www.framarcustomknives.co.uk/

[Muskett]

I am a huge CR fan, and know the Classic Sebenza since it was first made. Took me a while to buy one for all the reasons given but mostly the money front. They are still just as expensive as always. Anyway, I use my folders all the time; tried and used loads of makes. Non ever live in drawers unless I can't get on with them. A Sebenza will last twice as long as most makes out there, or longer as I haven't worn one out yet. Years and years of good service. A Benchmade, which I like, will last me a year or so. Spydercos a tad longer but I tend to lose them?? Other offerings don't fair well. The components and execution of a Sebenza are very high quality; a lot better than other cheaper factory offerings. That quality pays in the long term.

The large Regular Classic Sebenza is the better knife over the small. For small knives I prefer something finer, but the large is hard to beat. Yes, the steel is hard and sharpening isn't the easiest but they do hold their edge. Yes, they can be damaged if big time abused, but under normal use won't. Sebenzas are a bit like a Sig 210 pistol, a little dated but one of the finest knives made. Sure you might find a knife that will cut better, one that is bomb proof, one that fits your style better, just prettier; but there a few that are as classy. The Sebenza has always been hyped, but not by the manufacturer; just by the knife collecting world. A classic for a reason.

Are they perfect? No, but they are good, and as said will give years of service. Use one and buy second hand as most haven't done a days work; but they are a work knife.

[marthinus]

Well, here is some food for thought, or just some good reading material regarding tight tolerances, that CRK is renowned for, locks and high dollar knives that Sal Glesser, owner of Spyderco has mentioned through the years on the forums (ps, search is your friend).

Another thing to remember is that the Manufacturing Quality award that CRK has won so many times are not chosen by a panel, it is voted for by fellow knife makers. Even Bob Dozier, a very established maker in his own right has CRK pocket knives and I love his motto of : if it feels like climbing through a barbed wire fence, there is something wrong. Slim, sleek and simple knives.

A few weeks back, in this thread, someone asked if there was a Spyderco which could compete with the Sebenza. Sal eventually chimed in. His post was primarily a response to someone's skepticism regarding the origins of the framelock. He noted that he had, in his personal collection, a Chris Reeve knife with an earlier lock of Chris' called the "Lock 45". He further noted that it dated back to the 1970's and was the predecessor of the Reeve Integral Lock. That lead to someone asking what it looked like, at which point he suggested sending it to me to be photographed. He also noted in a later post that it was a small knife. It arrived a couple days ago and he wasn't kidding about its size. For the benefit of those who like "dimensional data" it weighs 1.375 ounces (40 grams) has a closed length of 2 13/16" (71 mm), a blade length of 2 7/32" (57mm) with a 2 1/16" (52mm) cutting edge, and is 5/16" (8mm) thick. For those who find photographic comparisons easier to visualize, the first photo below shows it with a Kiwi and my LH Mnandi.

Beyond that, it's an intriguing design. The action is glassy smooth and the lock up is rock solid despite the fact that the blade is only supported from one side. The small thumb stud and smooth handle, thin on the off side, make it difficult to open, but might be less of a problem for someone right handed and with better motor skills. No clip, that was probably not even a gleam in Sal's eye yet. I'm assuming the handle is titanium anodized to a bronze hue but that, and any other questions regarding it would best be answered by Sal, or someone intimately familiar with Chris Reeve's early knives.

Closed, "front" side:

Closed, lock side:

close up, to show one of the two ball bearings:

The balls do not serve as detents, just to smooth the action. Only friction holds the blade closed.

Another close up, note the angled locking surfaces on the blade...

Lock side view, half open. You can almost see the lower ball bearing:

Top view, almost fully open:

Fully open, lock side:

Finally, the design does have one peculiarity, you can fold the blade in the wrong direction, at least until the thumb stud makes contact with the frame...

Paul

My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
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Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
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Well, I cannot speak for Chris Reeve Knives, but I will offer an opinion.

I've known Chris and Ann for many years. We worked together when Chris was in South Africa.

A CRK knife is not a custom knife, nor is it a production knife. They are in a class by themselves. They've taken many years to develop their reputation.

Each piece is custom made by skilled custom makers. CRK tolerances and standards are the highest I've seen in processes like surface grinding and heat treat. There is a limit to their production capacity.

Chris is pretty anal on quality. "Quality is time. = Time is money". He pays his craftsmen a fair wage, and he charges a fair margin, he gives the world a product like no other. Chris and Ann work hard and they make a good living. "Enormous profits" is an inside joke that Chris and I laugh about. Frankly, I think they'd feel guilty if they made too much money.

The "Market" will determine if his business strategies work, regardless of what they are. If they don't work, adjustments are made....that's how businesses survive.

BTW, the flip side of a "bargain driven" market is manufacturers are forced to import product (export jobs) from China to compete in the need for the "lower price". More complications.

sal

Hi Dulleddown,

More profit is usually associated with higher price. That's normal. Profit is usually a percentage of sales price. To think that a high priced auto should garner the same proft as a low priced auto is not in accord with business. It might be the same percentage, but being more expensive, it will be more profit.

Unless you are a manufacturer, familiar with close tolerance manufacturing of heat treated steel & Titanium parts, you are not likely to be able to see all of the differences between one of Chris' knives and others. For example; CRK keeps 0.0005 tolerance on surface grinding. That's one sixth the thickness of a hair. Do you have the knowledsge and equipment to discover that tolerance?

In the end, it's all about trust. CRK took many years to build and maintain their repuation. Built with consistent focus. Even those trying to make a "cheaper" version must "leave out processes" or "soften their tolerance", or they will cost as much.

Rarely do you pay for the "name". That's a bullshit sales pitch made up by the ignorant claiming to offer the same for less. Money valuation between countries might offer a "deal" for a while until the money value balances, but all in all, you will get what you pay for.

sal

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Just because you can't see the difference doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means you can't see it.

Hi GWLee,

The benefit of tight tolerances is usually for long term durability as well as smooth function. Long term durability is difficult to determine in a short term decision. That's why reputation is important.

sal

Nice video.

High dollar knives are high dollar because they cost more to make. It might be materials (Titanium, unubtanium, etc.), it might be tolerances (Chris' has lotsa zeros after the decimal before hitting numbers), it might be labor (carving, engraving, etc.).

Sometmes those differences are difficult if not impossible for even the trained eye to detenct, generally impossible for a new student.

Just because you can't see the difference, doesn't mean it isn't there, sometimes it just means you can't see it.

sal

At the same time there are many people that feel the knife is not worth it, I did until I read Sal Glesser's comments and bought one myself after 3 years of saving (the knife was later taken in a mugging) and I was UTTERLY UNDERWHELMED when I bought it, even though I handled it before hand I just felt like owning something of true quality for the first time in my life (like a good quality car/suite/watch/camera). Until I used it non stop, on the farm etc and everything just started "flowing" and making sence. I replaced the stolen knife with an Insingo. I will always have a CRK and they retail for around $625 here. They are, for me at least, worth it and my personal connection, what the Sebenza has meant in my life, makes it special for me.

I have rambled a bit, but I hope some of what I have said has helped you to form your own opinion on the matter.

[mantzao]

I believe this video answers this thread's question!

[paddy]

Very good video Mantzao thanks, so well articulated, i feel i have learned a lot !!
Paddy

[Chrisstares]

Thanks for that Mantzao, an intelligent perspective.

[Chui]

Marthinus - how much more trouble are you going to get me in..........hearing such words uttered from the lips of Bob Dozier.........just ordered a Sebbie

[Ian Atkinson]

Marthinus - how much more trouble are you going to get me in..........hearing such words uttered from the lips of Bob Dozier.........just ordered a Sebbie

Treeeeat

Where did you order from Paul?

[Chui]

Treeeeat

Where did you order from Paul?

GPKnives - the last of their Tiger Eyes

(using a US postal delivery address, as someone has very kindly offered to collect the CR lanyard for me too........)

[LiquidMetal]

I believe this video answers this thread's question!

I'm a collector and I know exactly what you mean Only someone who knows knives can really value that effort and time invested in making a great quality knife. I don't have a Sebenza but I've been researching the breed it and I love the simple lines. The words 'less is more' springs to mind It's like buying art.