The £60 layers challenge... clothes you never knew you needed.. or hated!

[MeetTheGeeks]

I was having a chat with a good friend and the subject of layered clothing came up. I wear basic clothing for dartmoor and its probably outdated. My issue jacket has been my favorite layer for keeping water off and the wind out, a HH crew is my base layer and in the colder weather a norgie. Not fancy, not the most up to date but it works and its simple.
We had talked about the newer issued military gear and its layered systems and he asked me if I would like to have a look at some layers from different companies. I instantly said yes, and he thrust £500 into my hand in cash and said get off your a*se and find some then.

Ive ordered and had delivered some of the items, a few bits have arrived and a few more are still on the way. Im not a person that feels the cold normally but being tall the cut of clothes can make a difference to me. Reaching up to trim branches on the trees on some clothes means the wind gets down the crack of my butt and if it rains too, then its actually REALLY nasty.
Im 6'6" tall, broad in the shoulders and well built. Finding clothes that fit is a problem needing XXXL or larger, and having long arms makes that worse. Im hoping therfore that this review helps people with the cut of clothing as well as the overall quality and effectiveness.
The only real criteria I was given was that aiming for 50-75 quid per layer, it must layer and work together allowing full range of movement and in all weathers/conditions. I opted for a price budget of £60 per item, I feel this is fair and affordable, it must offer a base layer fleece, outer layer fleece and shell combo for total warmth offering peelable layers. This should suit for warmer days, through to colder nights and winter conditions. Ive not looked at trousers, only control of temp for the body core. Trousers might be done later if I can get him to part with more cash

Anyway.. the first items in the mail box are...


Blackhawk grid fleece coyote
MOD issue reversible bivi jacket in olive/coyote
Helikon shell jacket. coyote
Blackhawk Thermo-Fur
MilTec Smock
Keela Beelay Advance

All of these are priced at £60 each, freely available to everyone. Some pics will be following along in a moment and some initial thoughts. The color was not intentionally all coyote, I just opted for the most neutral color from the list.

[TallNHairyDave]

Ooh, looking forward to reading these reviews mate, as being a fellow of the tall, broad shoulder (and large around the middle) persuasion finding decent kit can be a pain...

[MeetTheGeeks]

Time for some piccies...

Blackhawk grid fleece..
Odd shaped to the fleece part, and when held to the light its a little see through. Stretchy panels under the arms, long back to keep the wind out and thumb loops for getting the layering, without it drifting up your sleeve

MOD issue bivi jacket
Basic, no frills, not complicated and rough elastic on the cuff. There is a baffle with velcro on it that simply sticks to itself on the inside of the jacket and the outer. Zipping and unzipping makes you swear.. Ask ru

Helikon Shell
Stitching is shocking, the feel is ok, its light, very undersized in the cut and when you reach for anything the sleeves ride up your arms. Id have to put jam on my wrist and invite the sleeves down for tea.. If you have big biceps, forget it.. Zips under the armpit allow air to move, in reality, they dont actually have an open area. This might be due to being new, but at the moment when unzipped, there is no air flow..

BlackHawk Thermo-Fur
Fuzzy on the outside, fuzzy on the inside with a liner across the front sections. Its big, its bold and its odd when you feel it. I feel like a yeti after its summer hair trim in it, but more testing will tell.

Mil-Com Smock
A germany company well known for a marmite range of products. Love them or hate them, first impressions show good stitching, a full volume of insulation and its well made. Testing will show more. Until then..

Keela Belay Advance

First impression is what a great feel to it, you just get the feel of quality materials. The jacket compresses down nicely and the quality of construction is outstanding. I scrunched it up and let it go, it all fluffed back up beautifully. Its in a nice shade of green too!

Time for some wearing and testing.. more to come...

[Dr Gonzo]

Pierre Cardin long sleeve thermal £7
Dockers wool hoody £20
Swedish snow smock £28
Total £55
I'll have change for dinner and be warm as toast

[MeetTheGeeks]

Thermal is a bit much for the warmer days mate

Got links to the other bits?

[Noddy]

You looked at the ECWCS system?

[Dr Gonzo]

I run quite hot so a thermal on its own is good when moving about

Hoody

Snow Smock

The Smocks have gone up a little since I bought mine, I posted a Heads Up to them a while ago...great value and can be dyed
Good size as well for layers underneath

[MeetTheGeeks]

You looked at the ECWCS system?

Dont think Im aware of it mate, got a linky?


Dr Gonzo I'll have a look at those many thanks

[templogin]

Mmm, interesting thread. I am neither tall, nor particularly broad-shouldered, nor big around the middle. I have been blessed with the most incredible good looks though. Sadly they only lasted for the first 3 years of my life Now I just look like someone has swapped my face for my Dad's.

I always thought that I was commonly sized until I came on here to find that all trousers being sold were either 30" waist; you need more pies, or 40" waist; give the other bloke the pies. Jackets are either medium or 2XL

I do like to get outside though so I will read this with interest.

[cave_dweller]

Here's what I was wearing while drinking tea by the pond today while my mate waved a fishing rod around...

M&S merino wool blend long sleeve base layer (no link - it's not on their website) - very warm, very long (covers most of my bum) and super comfy. About £25 I think. I love mine to bits.

Hoody over the top:



And one of these in the bag in case it rained:



the bottom two are both from the Bushcraft store - The Ridgeline apparently is sized small, but they go up to 5XL (no connection etc)

Silly Karrimor windproof beany, and I was toasty warm, but could have done with a pair of gloves!

[Ru Titley]

Wow the stitching on that Helikon is quite awful , You would have thought they would have checked that before sending it out .
I did see the other two on Friday .
The Blackhawk when held up outside showed an awful lot of daylight , apparently the small fleece squares keep you warm but the holes allow You to breath whilest being active , but I think Id really want to try this out further before adding it too an Expedition kit list especially with the fleece lined arm pits which would seem to get possibley rather hot .

The new MOD issue bivi jacket was something of a revelation , the news that the Lads were finally getting some decent cold weather gear was a welcome sound and these along with the issued trousers are apparently rated to -25 .

The velcro storm flap is velcro'd on both sides of the reversable zip and was constanly catching stoping the zip from working well .
But it took just a few seconds from putting it on to start warming up which was great and when removing it it was interesting to note that the coat remained the body heat well , geting cold again and putting back on to instant warmth .

Id be interrested to see this again after much use and hope that the internal material dosent sag to the bottoms of the coat , a ribbed baffle system like on some Rabs or North face coats would probably stop this from happening .

[pippyd]

Great thread MTG.

I'd consider spending less on the mid layer and more on the waterproof but I'm going to be following this one with interest because it's a lot of stuff I've not seen before

Cheers. Phil

[MeetTheGeeks]

A quick update on the ECWCS system, the jackets start at £250, the layers under that are £150-200 each.. not on the cards Im afraid.. it looks to be a great system, but not anything on the price I can justify..

[MeetTheGeeks]

Helikon

The mornings and most of the day here seems to be warm sunshine and a gentle breeze which presents no help in testing the jacket. When the sun goes down however it rapidly changes to cold breeze and low temperatures. I tried the helicon last night; it’s the one that arrived last and the one that gave me the least amount of enthusiasm.
The first try of the jacket after taking it out the pack offered me a struggle. Further testing showed it not to be a chance problem. I went to sit on the decking to watch the sun going down and have a brew. Sitting there with just a base layer was fine with a coffee but as the sun went further down and the warmth of the coffee faded I started to get cold. The breeze was making me cold and after half an hour or so I was starting to shiver a little. Not the smartest thing to do sit in a base layer but hey.
Putting the jacket on was half fine, the right sleeve was not a problem but the left sleeve as my hand slid in snagged on something inside. The stitching is so poorly finished a large reinforced loop of stitching had gone between my fingers and prevented me from getting my hand further in. I half pulled my hand out and moved it to the side a few times before getting my arm finally into the sleeve. I zipped the jacket up, which also did not go smoothly as it stuck for a reason which I cannot determine. A few tugs up and down and a good pull of the jacket downwards so the zip was under tension and it finally did up. That should read ‘did up trapping my beard’. Words were said we don’t need to repeat here.
The zip incidentally is an YKK vislon. The material on the jacket where the zip is sewn appears to be a little bunched and not laying flat. Manufacture perhaps? Once the jacket is done up the collar is raised by two inches and is rather plump preventing wind getting in. This would be fine until you take the hood out and want to use that. Then the collar seems limp and bereft of effectiveness.
Some first impressions of the jacket overall. The noise is an issue. Any time you move to reach for something or do anything the jacket makes a really annoying abrasive sound. I would not have expected it but it has memories of sitting on a leather sofa once and not wanting to move because of the type of noise it makes. The other thing that really stands out is the stitching. The quality is not second rate, its worse. Where panels meet other panels in manufacture the stitching goes off line and in some places near the collar are double and treble stitched leaving large clumps of thick thread. The overall cut is on the tight side, the body is fine, the sleeves however are really short with an inch and a half short gap between the end of the garment and my wrists. This is a three XL garment, so not a small but it feels like an XL. Layering in this would not be possible on the body at least. A norgie underneath with the base layer and it was all you could wear. That to be fair was not comfortable and it did not aid movement, it felt considerably restrictive. If you wore it over a base layer closest to the body you would only end up with a wet fleece defeating the point of layering. Not to mention when I get wet I smell like a wet dog.
With the breeze blowing and sat in the chair watching the stars the jacket did keep the wind off, that is its purpose and it did it. Sort of. I could feel a draught but cannot find out where it was entering. It would be accurate to say that I felt it all over leading me to feel the material stops a large portion of wind but not all. Perhaps it just didn’t retain body heat? The thin material is minimal weight, but the tight weave did not stop all wind and as for body heat retention as detailed on the label, I would be inclined to disagree with that also. I felt marginally warmer only. Its water proof don’t get me wrong, there does seem to be a DWR factor to the jacket but as to how long that would protect you I’d prefer not to speculate. Given its already poor findings, I would only feel it’s not something you would want to test to its limit.

Overall if it was £20 you would accept it, but as it cost three times that you would feel disappointed. The overall quality and style is not new its common in many other ranges of clothing. It’s basic, its crude, it’s not overly effective at its role and I actually think it’s something that would drive a person insane on the noise. You couldn’t use it on a stalking evening. If you are thinking of getting Helikon clothing, I would personally think again, the sizes are not good, the quality and QC seem to be basic/crude and it’s not something we are used to. Overall, give it a miss. Webtex is actually better than this.

[TallNHairyDave]

Thanks for the write ups so far Ax mate... That Helikon jacket is atrociously finished!

One brand to avoid I reckon..