Clasp Knife Question

[Dutchy357]

HI Guys

I need some help in trying to identify a clasp knife I recently purchased.

It was supposed to be a Military Clasp Knife, however I am certain that is not so.

I initially thought it was one of the 6353 pattern knives with Nickel scales that were supplied to the Canadian forces. On close inspection I can not find any Military acceptance marks and I am sure is a much smaller knife.

I suspect it was made for the civilian market and was probably meant for scouts or guides.

Any help that anyone can give me on this knife and any idea when it was made would be greatly appreciated.

It has a makers mark.
Tang LHS: Clements
Tang RHS: Sheffield Made Hand Forged

Size:
Scale: 107mm or 4 3/16"
Sheepsfoot Blade: Kick to tip 70mm or 2 3/4"
Open: 185mm or 7 1/4"

Weight: 161gm or 5.7oz








Regards Dutchy

[Iron Hoarder]

You are probably right. I have had several knives in the military pattern similar to that which had no marks. Most of them were the larger frame though.

[RETDPMSO]

CLEMENTS were a London frm of cutlery retailers, thus the knife is private purchase.

RETDPMSO

[Dutchy357]

Hi Guys

Thanks very much for that information.

I was well aware that there were businesses who sold knives under their name that they had made for them. This is the first Pre WW2 knife in my collection that I am aware of being such a knife.

I guess concentrating on Military Knives this is not going to happen very often. I would expect most issue knives from that period to be maker marked. I assume that most of the private purchase would have been high end products obtained by the Officers.

Sadly, since 1980 or thereabouts, most Australian issue clasp knives have been outsourced and sold under a suppliers name not the makers. Mostly because we no longer have a cutlery industry here in Australia anymore and the knives have come from Japan and China.

Hell, we hardly have anything made here anymore.

Regards Dutchy

[Dutchy357]

Hi Guys

I have just had a close look at the knife and I have realised that the scales are not Nickel plated Steel, they are Nickle/Silver also known as German Silver.

I suspect that this would have been a more expensive material to use than steel. This tends me to believe that the knife is up market and in its day would have been more expensive than were the scales nickle plated steel.

Is this a safe assumption to make? or is there error in my logic?

Regards Dutchy

[OWDTOM]

Hi Guys

I have just had a close look at the knife and I have realised that the scales are not Nickel plated Steel, they are Nickle/Silver also known as German Silver.

I suspect that this would have been a more expensive material to use than steel. This tends me to believe that the knife is up market and in its day would have been more expensive than were the scales nickle plated steel.

Is this a safe assumption to make? or is there error in my logic?

Regards Dutchy

Very often white metal scales were stamped 'Platinoid' although what this signified exactly I couldn't say.

According to Wikipedia it is associated with the platinum group of metals, but it obviously doesn't fall into that category of noble or precious metals in my opinion.
T

[Dutchy357]

Hmmm

The Wikipedia info isn't always added by experts! Many times it is only those who think they are!!

Platinoid, sounds dodgy to me.

I believe that disreputable people have been known to cast German Silver in to 1 oz nuggets and sell it as German Silver with no referance to the fact that it does NOT contain any silver.

For anyone that does not know, the usual formulation of German Silver or Nickel Silver is 60% copper, 20% nickel and 20% zinc. It is evidently harder and more corrosion resistant than brass.

Regards Dutchy

[OWDTOM]

Hmmm

Platinoid, sounds dodgy to me.

I believe that disreputable people have been known to cast German Silver in to 1 oz nuggets and sell it as German Silver with no referance to the fact that it does NOT contain any silver.

Regards Dutchy

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Not sure whether you mean 'dodgy' in this particular intstance or generally speaking.

Many reputable Sheffield firms marked the frames of their all metal knives thus.
T

[Dutchy357]

...............................................


Not sure whether you mean 'dodgy' in this particular intstance or generally speaking.

Many reputable Sheffield firms marked the frames of their all metal knives thus.
T

On the surface it seemed to be trying to associate the metal with Platinum.

After all, I had just read about dodgy people being devious with the way they sold ingots of "German Silver".

However on researching I found the following definition:
An alloy of copper with zinc, nickel, and sometimes tungsten, used for its high electrical resistance.

Which is perfectly accurate.

I am sure I am not the only person that has been confused by the similarity between Platinoid and Platinum!!

Dutchy

[Iron Hoarder]

It's all about marketing.

[OWDTOM]

It's all about marketing.

..........................

Not entirely IH.

About four years ago I wrote some fairly lengthy posts which induced significant debate on the subject of nickel silver, German silver, monkey metal and others, all used in knife-making; and with particular reference to the fact that the word 'silver' was a misnomer - in relation to 'German and nickel' that is.

Apart from the word platinoid, I have never seen another all-metal knife which had the name of the metal stamped on its scales - excluding of course sillver and gold scaled knives which carried Assay marks. This is why I said I am puzzled as to why top cutlery firms saw fit to mark their knives with 'platinoid'. Far from being unscrupulous or dodgy, these firms sought to achieve the highest reputation for the quality of their products and any attempt to fool the buying public into thinking they were getting something they weren't is a non-starter if only because the suffix 'OID' means very simply... 'like' or 'resembling but not the same'

This page of Joseph Rodgers made knives from the Army and Navy Stores catalogue for 1904, shows details of scale materials with several being in platinoid and others in nickel silver, German silver and nickel plate. This also indicates that nickel silver and German silver are not the same thing.

Here's another perfectly accurate, yet different definition..........plat-i-noid adj. Like platinum - n. 1 An alloy of German silver and 1 or 2 percent of tungsten, used in the manufacture of resistance coils and other electrical appliances. 2 A platinum metal of platinoid....
T

[Iron Hoarder]

I meant marketing as a name that sounds interesting and like a quality product. I didn't mean to infer misleading marketing was at work. I actually think platinoid sounds more modern and interesting than German silver or nickel silver.

[OWDTOM]

[QUOTE=Iron Hoarder;1979343]I meant marketing as a name that sounds interesting and like a quality product. I didn't mean to infer misleading marketing was at work.
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Nor did I assume that you meant otherwise IH.

I would still very much like to find out why Rodgers and others saw fit to mark the scales of middle of the road knives with the name of the metal used: it's not as if they were expensive, best finished, high end knives.

T

[Time Bandit]

I would still very much like to find out why Rodgers and others saw fit to mark the scales of middle of the road knives with the name of the metal used: it's not as if they were expensive, best finished, high end knives.

Maybe so the punters at the cheaper end of the market thought they were getting something better than it really was?