Value for money custom knife?

[Martyn]

I don't make custom knives under either definition of custom...not 'made for a customer' or 'customised'...they are not even commissioned or bespoke.

I do make one-off hand-made knives to the best of my ability with no thought to the bottom line or the ability to sell. The pendant in me squeals at the idea that the shorthand for this approach in the knife world seems to be 'custom'; I am under no illusion, they are self indulgent knives.

In essence,I agree with you. But in my mind the critical factor is who initiated the item being made...the maker or the buyer? I think that if it is the buyer, then it is a custom knife but the difference between custom and commissioned, I don't know. However, as I have pointed out, the buyer who initiates the items being made could be a group...

I suppose it could be and as I said earlier, at some point if they asked for 10, 100 or 1000 knives, it makes a nonsense out of the concept. If a group commissions a piece of art from you, I would call that a custom piece. If a company asked you to make 10,000 knives for resale, then the point is lost. I don't know where the line gets drawn, I suppose you'd have to ask the OED for an adjudication, but I don't think it makes any difference in real terms, at least not for us.

[Martyn]

This has been a really interesting read. I'm a pedant, I get it from my mother, and I've always been wound up by the way the term custom is used on here, the custom group buys particularly get my goat I own one custom knife, something that Stu Mitchell made for me, to my design, with my name on it. I own several hand made knives, some were custom, but then I bought them second hand, so now they're just hand made, and some were part of small production runs.

If it was made for you, to your design it's custom, it's bespoke, it's yours. If it wasn't, it's not.

In the 'olden days' a custom knife maker would provide a letter with the knife to the originator of the commission, which would establish the knife as a 'custom' rather than an off the shelf product and provide provenance if it ever went for resale.

[JungleBert]

I have such a letter... My point is though, to muddy things even further, if it wasn't made for me, it's not a custom anymore, it's a second hand piece.

[Gizmo]

Beautiful indeed,

and good pricing. Bookmarked. Thanks again for staying on point, I didn't mean to rouse an argument here.

My pleasure. ......and you sure now how to kick start a thread!

[Martyn]

I have such a letter... My point is though, to muddy things even further, if it wasn't made for me, it's not a custom anymore, it's a second hand piece.

That's debatable IMO. I'd argue the defining point was the circumstances under which the knife was made. If it was made as a custom, then nothing can alter that. Selling it doesn't re-write the terms under which it was made. It just becomes a second hand custom.

[hughtrimble]

Customers sometimes don't help the situation.

Put knife up for sale.

Enquiry #1:
Is that a custom knife?
No, it's a handmade knife.
Oh, well I want a custom knife.
That's fine, we can do one, details, etc.
But I wanted that one, but not if it's not a custom.

Enquiry #2:
Is that a custom knife?
Yes.

I think this is part of the issue - it's self perpetuating. 'Custom' is a buzz word that sells knives - even if the buyer doesn't understand what a 'custom' is, he/she just wants that label. A seller who is honest about it may very well lose out, because other makers are advertising their wares as 'custom' even though they are simply 'hand made'.

I think someone at OED might find it quite an interesting question. Worth a shot.

[Martyn]

I only call myself a custom maker, as one out of perhaps 20 knives is actually custom...
Yup...words have changed meaning, and most folk will misunderstand the meaning of "custom" and I just go with the flow...

Ahhh, but you are old school see Zack. Back in the day, everybody knew that if you didn't take commissions you were not a custom knife maker, simple as that. Doesn't matter how many you make, you just need to be open for commissions. Ironically, with the very top custom makers, you get an odd situation where they cant take commissions because they would have an impossibly long order book. Or simply that they don't need to because someone will drop a couple of grand on anything they make as soon as it leaves the shop. But I guess if you get to that point, it really doesn't matter what you call yourself.

I agree with Stew, I think we, the customers are responsible for much of the confusion. In the days before BB when I used to frequent the Custom Knife Directory as it used to be called, the custom makers were perfectly clear what the term meant. Nobody would call themselves a custom maker unless they took commissions and a knife was not a custom unless it was made under a commission. I bet if you asked the question, the majority of makers who have been in the job for a few decades, would give you a straight answer with no problem.

[Noddy]

I think we, the customers are responsible for much of the confusion.

'Custom' is a buzz word that sells knives

The problem is that 'custom' is a word that sells anything. From hand-made, one-off Harley chops on tv, to the option of rear-heated mudflaps and reclining ashtrays on a Hyundai.

There is something more insidious peeing in the watersupply than our simple inability to agree on the matter

[bwildered]

Thank God there's no translation for the word 'custom' in Finnish... I can carry on selling knives. There is a translation for 'made to measure', though. Much more clear cut.

[Merwe knives]

The problem is that 'custom' is a word that sells anything. From hand-made, one-off Harley chops on tv, to the option of rear-heated mudflaps and reclining ashtrays on a Hyundai.

There is something more insidious peeing in the watersupply than our simple inability to agree on the matter

To me the term 'custom' conjures up images of mighty Range Rovers with mini low profiled tyres, Colt 1911's with trigger shoes wide enough to fire a round by themselves should someone brush past close enough.. in general, a negative marketing ploy. "Custom' too often deviates from OEM proven and well engineered specs to meet consumer's whims.

As for knives, the same. I'd rather buy/collect and value a 'handmade' knife made to a maker's spec than a 'custom' knife. As a maker I'd refuse to 'customise' a knife to a customer's spec if I feel it might result in a knife with an inherent design flaw bearing my mark. You'd like a diving knife in O1 tool steel, oh really? A survival knife with MOP scales, oh really?

Bottom line to me; 'custom' is no guarantee to quality or craftmanship, 'handmade' has a better chance since it implies limited production methods and thus better quality control and attention to detail. With your mark on a 'handmade' item you cannot blame sub standard quality on the guy futher down the production line, it's your name on the line.

[room101]

Thank God there's no translation for the word 'custom' in Finnish... I can carry on selling knives. There is a translation for 'made to measure', though. Much more clear cut.

Clear cut.. nice pun!

[Jayex]

Take Martin knives for example. The customer is allowed to choose from an assortment of options to their own liking, say about 30-40 different specs.. Now, if no other person in the world has chosen those same set of specs and built that exact knife that you have.. Does it then earn the title of custom?

Oh.. And by the way.. Suggest me affordable custom knife makers or else.. I'll... Get ya!

[Saint-Just]

Take Martin knives for example. The customer is allowed to choose from an assortment of options to their own liking, say about 30-40 different specs.. Now, if no other person in the world has chosen those same set of specs and built that exact knife that you have.. Does it then earn the title of custom?

No: you are not having a knife made to your specs, you're chosing among the maker's option.

"Custom" as defined is not a quality attached to a knife. If i ask Stu Mitchell to make a knife to my design it will be a custom knife. If I thendecide to sell it on, to my buyer it willnot be a custom anymore since he will have had no input in its design.
The quality of the knife will not have changed: it will still be a hand made knife by one of the great English knifemakers.

[Noddy]

In the historical vernacular, 'custom' is the term reserved by a skilled maker (cutler, smith whatever) for objects they have been directed to make, but which they aren't quite sure about themselves ... and certainly don't want the boys taking the mick about later on.

[87pounds]

On fridays I eat fish and chips with my knife. Because its a custom.