Vintage Sheffield folder's (pic heavy !)

[yaro5]

Yes Andy, you did, it was two years ago. Good memory.
The scan really doesn't do the knife justice, the pearl scales are fabulous.

Joe

[OWDTOM]

Here's one you guys should like. Someone posted it over on All About Pocket Knives. I can't imagine it is a common one by any means. There are three partial like of text.

http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/...218240#p218240

Could well be Koeller & Schmitz Cutlery Co, Milwaukee WI - became Fox Cutlery Co in 1915 - ceased trading 1955.
T

[OWDTOM]

who?
i have seen some very poorly reconstructed sheffield knives on ebay by one particular seller.
i won't post their name here, lest i publicly embarrass a potential member of this forum, but they really should stop selling their phony garbage.

It would serve no useful purpose to divulge the identity of this garden shed 'would-be-cutler'.

Whilst my post was intended to draw Steven's attention to a third possibility in the knowledge that he knows the person to whom I was referring, it was also intended to alert a wider audience to some of the happenings taking place in Sheffield today.

Other names on knives requiring extra-close examination by members when buying principally lower end knives in apparently very good condition - are: ERA James Barber, Lockwood Brothers, Thomas Ellin, Joseph Elliot and J.Nowill & Sons.

Vast quantities of marked-up blades and materials were virtually given away or thrown out in the late 1990's. Nowills (owned by Hopkinsons) for example went by the tea chest load to West Yorkshire, Birmingham, Liverpool and London and within less than a year Nowill marked knives - primarily whitlers - with white bone/synthetic scales appeared in quantity on the stalls of antiques fair dealers all over the country - the workmanship was total rubbish - I've never seen worse!
T

[mito0]

There are those who - quite understandably I feel - confuse the two terms 'Exhibition' and 'EXPOSITION' in relation to knives and perhaps it would be worthwhile to clarify certain facts.

Ultra-special fabrications, very often highly complex multi-bladed pieces, were made by top Sheffield Cutlery firms, for the sole purpose of 'exposing' the company's manufacturing expertise and profile to the world at large via Expositions held in various countries from time to time.


Knives such as KYJ's Wharncliffe and the Wostenholm four-blade above may well have adorned exhibit/display cabinets in the companies' showrooms or elsewhere, but they are essentially standard pattern knives in pristine condition and many thousands like them were sold throughout the decades.

The point being that without provenance to the contrary there will be knives in the SEK Book that have never been exhibited - fantastic though they are.
T

i meant to thank you for this clarification earlier, owdtom.
i think my own (and perhaps other people's) confusion about the two terms stemmed from the fact that the first of the great industrial fairs to be held in england was "the great exhibition" of 1851 in london.
almost all subsequent fairs were called "expositions" instead.

so, to summarize: "exposition knives" are the actual pieces which were displayed at one of the big industrial fairs, while "exhibition knives" are fancy pieces which might have been displayed in a showcase or shop window?

[mito0]

It would serve no useful purpose to divulge the identity of this garden shed 'would-be-cutler'.

agreed.
it was purely rhetorical.
i have no desire to shame anyone, shameful as their deeds may be.

[Steven Cocker]

It would serve no useful purpose to divulge the identity of this garden shed 'would-be-cutler'.

Whilst my post was intended to draw Steven's attention to a third possibility in the knowledge that he knows the person to whom I was referring, it was also intended to alert a wider audience to some of the happenings taking place in Sheffield today.

I know of the person who you was referring to...

Other names on knives requiring extra-close examination by members when buying principally lower end knives in apparently very good condition - are: ERA James Barber, Lockwood Brothers, Thomas Ellin, Joseph Elliot and J.Nowill & Sons.

T

A few years ago people could walk from the top of Arundel street right down to Sylvester street and have boxes of old knife blades, Scissors and that sort.

[OWDTOM]

This knife my dad found about 30 years ago in a draw, when he had a workshop at joseph Elliott & sons, it was in a poor state so my dad asked one of the workers at Elliotts to repair it and clean it up, that will probably anwser the raised pin on the blade.

As a matter of interest Steven is there an anchor rivet or does the back spring simply run out from the letter opener; the whole being just one piece. If so them obviously there would be no need for an anchor pin because the frame itself would be performing that function.
T

[Steven Cocker]

As a matter of interest Steven is there an anchor rivet or does the back spring simply run out from the letter opener; the whole being just one piece. If so them obviously there would be no need for an anchor pin because the frame itself would be performing that function.
T

Looking at it, it appears that the letter opener and the spring is all one, I will clean the inside up to double check,

[OWDTOM]

i
so, to summarize: "exposition knives" are the actual pieces which were displayed at one of the big industrial fairs, while "exhibition knives" are fancy pieces which might have been displayed in a showcase or shop window?

Yes and no.



Yes EXPOSITION KNIVES were the ACTUAL knives, made by each company's finest craftspeople, which were subsequently PUT ON DISPLAY at a particular EXPOSITION - held wherever and whenever.


In other words, this means that those knives which were actually EXHBITED at an EXPOSITION can by definitiion RIGHTLY BE TERMED EXHIBITIION KNIVES ALSO .... . BUT...thereafter, only when they are accompanied by a cast-iron provenance can they retain the TRUE STATUS of EXPOSITION KNIVES.


Because many of the successful (and less successful) patterns exhibited went straight into production afterwards and many also were put on general display (therefore exhibited) in show cases and cabinets, they were invariably tagged 'exhibition knives' or 'pieces' by all and sundry, when in effect they were simply knives of PATTERNs that had been 'exhibited' at one of the big Expositions - and not the actual Exposition exhibits themselves.

This is why I said
......"The point being that without provenance to the contrary there will be knives in the SEK Book that have never been exhibited" and here I realise I should have added.... 'at Expositions'.
T

[OWDTOM]

Looking at it, it appears that the letter opener and the spring is all one, I will clean the inside up to double check,

Don't spend any time on it Steven, I think you'll find that the inside will reveal nothing.

If you can't see a distinct line delineating the very end the back spring as shown here, then it has to be an extension of the frame - thereby removing the need for the notch on which it would otherwise sit.
T

[KYJ]

Thank you for your comments for my knives.
Superior craftsmanship, high quality steel, excellent material...I do like these historical knives.
(I simply call these knives as classic knife or antique knife.)

Here is one more Victorian sample of my favorite...Wharncliffe Whittler with beautiful stag handle by George Wostenholm.
I think that this is one of the most produced pattern, but I do like this piece.
If I choose only one Wharncliffe knife from my collection, I pick this.
As well as a lot of other collectors, I sometimes sell my knife to the collector or to the dealer.
But this knife is one of my "never sell knife".
Human craftsmanship and nature beauty meets in this knife, and also, it is familiar to hand.
I prefer the knife which was made for using in life.

[giz]

hi everyone,
well another beautie from kyj. truly superb.
on your comments tom that my dad had knives such as these. he probably did i saw him and cindy once a year when they had traveled england in search of such beauties,
he and i would look through the stuff he bought and it all blurs. he and cindy did find some lovely things and i know he wouldnt sell them cheap.
and yes tom i remember the auction of stans knives in leeds i bought three nice multiblades, two in silver and a pearl all in nice boxes, i will post pics soon
glenn

[Iron Hoarder]

Does any one have any information on a cutler with the last name of Ravner on either Arden or Garden street? The stamp is partially obliterated on both blades. It comes up something like this
RAVNER
?ARDEN ST
??STIE??

With the top two lines being on one blade and the bottom line being from the other. I'm not ruling out the possibility of the two blades being from different makers. It's on the top horseman's knife. I'm having a heck of a time finding a decent one of these with both blades original and both scales attached.



J. Wiltshire, London. Two bladed square tanged quill knife with worked wrap around back spring.







F. Newtom Premier, Sheffield. Ivory scales and it has a nice swan stamp on the blade that says Premier Try Knife.



Pearson, Norwich. Ivory scaled corn knife.

[yaro5]

on your comments tom that my dad had knives such as these. he probably did i saw him and cindy once a year when they had traveled england in search of such beauties,
he and i would look through the stuff he bought and it all blurs. he and cindy did find some lovely things and i know he wouldnt sell them cheap.
glenn

Glenn, You reminded me ,I have a bunch of your Dad's and Cindy's catalogs going back to 1993, they had some spectacular knives in them. This weekend I'll scan some in and post them.
KYJ, another mouth watering example from your collection. Thanks for showing.
Joe

[mito0]

Here is one more Victorian sample of my favorite...Wharncliffe Whittler with beautiful stag handle by George Wostenholm.
I think that this is one of the most produced pattern, but I do like this piece.
If I choose only one Wharncliffe knife from my collection, I pick this.
As well as a lot of other collectors, I sometimes sell my knife to the collector or to the dealer.
But this knife is one of my "never sell knife".
Human craftsmanship and nature beauty meets in this knife, and also, it is familiar to hand.
I prefer the knife which was made for using in life.

kyj, i am absolutely awed by your collection and impeccable taste.
the classic serpentine wharncliffe whittler is my favorite pattern, and yours is a perfect example.

it's also a textbook example of the way stag was once hafted.
notice this is red stag antler, not indian sambar stag.
fine-textured, western european red stag was the predominant antler used on the knives in the "sheffield exhibition knives" book.
sambar stag is much "chunkier" and more furrowed in texture.
notice that none of the facing texture was removed.
since antlers curve on multiple axes, they were once cut into segments, softened and darkened by boiling in water with wood chips, twisted straight and placed in a clamp, then set aside to dry and harden in a new, straightened shape.
this was the only way to maintain the look of fully-textured scales on every knife without discarding more than half of the antler.
stag is not hafted this way anymore, since very few people will go through the trouble to straighten antler pieces.
in fact, american master smith p.j. tomes is the only modern cutler i know of who still practices this technique.

your wostenholm piece is a wonderful example of the unparalleled level of quality sheffield once produced.
thank you very much for sharing.