Ivory and the law...

[Edd-UK]

I am thinking to buy a knife from Busse Combat, HACK series with Fossilized Mammoth Ivory handle. So, it should be legal to own it in the UK, right?

Yep, Correct

[Tim-Gabz]

I use warthog tusks which produce a great handle material. With Swine fever and Foot & Mouth there is the health issue sending out of Botswana as all animal products need fumigation and certification.

It currently costs me $100/knife for the certification and treatment and that is why I prefer micarta and kydex. Piggy handles are for close friends in Bots.

[BigShot]

Hey folks - a quick bit of info here that might help some people wanting to buy or use ivory in a knife...

Mammoth Ivory, as has been mentioned, is legal to use and sell as it comes from an extinct animal and not an endangered one.
My dad taught me a quick way to tell them apart a while back and it can be done using the grain lines in the ivory itself.
Imagine tree rings with a criss-cross pattern and you'll have a good idea of what it is.

If they cross at a sharp angle (90 degrees or less), it's mammoth. If they cross at a shallow angle, it could be elephant. (an angled cut of mammoth can produce lines crossing at angles greater than 90 degrees so appearing similar to elephant)

A quick google search threw up this guide on ebay which shows the difference in a couple of decent pictures.

The guide also touches on telling the difference when the tusk was cut at an angle (which can make mammoth ivory look like elephant in so far as the angles of lines are concerned) too.

Hopefully this will be of use to someone.

http://reviews.ebay.com/Identify-Ivo...:-1:LISTINGS:2

The good thing about this method is that it can give a pretty certain identification of mammoth, and any ambiguity is more likely to make you think a legal item is illegal as opposed to the more troublesome way of thinking elephant ivory is mammoth.

[Martyn]

He was right.

http://www.britishblades.com/home/ar...&showarticle=8

[BigShot]

Ah well there ya go.
Hadn't seen that until now - nicely put together piece there Martyn.

Good to have the info linked and mentioned in this thread for the benefit of anyone just giving this bit a quick look though.

How's that only got a rating fo 2ish though? Should be higher - here - I'll help. Haha.

Only thing I think is missing in the article is a mention that if mammoth is cut at an angle as opposed to straight across the grain, it can open up the angle to look more like elephant.
Again, that would cause someone to conclude mammoth was elephant and so err on the side of caution, but it's worth noting.

[Martyn]

Ah well there ya go.
Hadn't seen that until now - nicely put together piece there Martyn.

Good to have the info linked and mentioned in this thread for the benefit of anyone just giving this bit a quick look though.

How's that only got a rating fo 2ish though? Should be higher - here - I'll help. Haha.

maybe cos it's old - I dunno.

[Tim-Gabz]

I had to help get a Cities certificate for an antique wall divider with inlay. Being for my mother it was a heap of work and when it reached destination the authorities noted that it wasn't even elephant ivory.Gnhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! News today was of two Chinese gents caught at our airport smuggling a tusk out. They are likely to do time in an African Gaol.

[aaronjosph]

The law can be a strange thing and administered and enforced based on whether or not officials think a particular violation is worthy of making a case and expending resources.

However, someone can get in serious trouble for importing or exporting pianos with real ivory keys without the proper permits.

[rgugliel]

How would this fair out? With it coming from Finland? Thanks

https://www.brisa.fi/portal/index.ph...oducts_id=2525

[ngraudal]

How would this fair out? With it coming from Finland? Thanks

https://www.brisa.fi/portal/index.ph...oducts_id=2525

for €50 it is probably not real ivory, but a substitute like micarta

[RETDPMSO]

I have only just come across this thread but in regard to the original posting and this section:

"To legally sell a knife inside the UK with elephant ivory on it somewhere, the knife must have been made before 1947 and must have an accompanying DEFRA certificate.

With regard to traders on Portobello Road (the real one), Camden market, e-Bay or anywhere else, that are offering so called "antique ivory" for sale without a DEFRA certificate, they are selling it illegally."

This does not seem to be correct as this is on the DEFRA website - http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/abo...idance/GN7.pdf

3. Ivory
Antique worked specimens of ivory acquired in their finished worked state before 3 March 1947 are covered by the antiques derogation (Article 62(3) of EC Regulation 865/2006)
and may be used commercially without a certificate.
Examples of ivory which may be considered to be “worked” or “unworked”, in line with EC guidance, are:
• Worked
• ivory items made for jewellery, adornment, art, utility or musical instruments, including whole tusks where the surface has been carved
• Unworked
• whole uncarved elephant tusk • whole polished elephant tusk