I see trouble ahead after teenager's murder.

[Hellz]

When we write to our MP's (cheers for those links Mirage) should those in the BCCA sign off as members of the British Custom Cutlers Association? For example:

Yours sincerely


(Name Here)
Member of the British Custom Cutlers Association

Would that help make us look more respectable? (I'm not saying you lot need to be made to look more respectable... )

Just a thought

Hellz

[ZDP-189]

Please no. While I agree with the sentiment, I want no part of this process that draws unwanted attention to knife collectors at this difficult time. Imagine some of the posts on BB repeated out of context in the press.

[Adi]

Leve it well alone.If they think it's a flick knife they can't ban it a second time!

[Martyn]

The knife made me do it so ban the knife

The game made me do it so ban the game
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/29/dixons_manhunt/

Social and ethical degradation.....................nah mate the game/knife did it

sheet!

Well, you know, just so long as "something" made them do it - anything really, they just cant admit it was thier fault and take responsibility for it. It's always someone elses fault.

The problem is, there are far too many people eager to believe them in thier search for a reason for this happening and hunt for a quick, appeasing solution. I even think they realise that they are finding wrong reasons and comming up with solutions for them. It's far easier to blame a game and ban a knife, than to tackle the degredation of society.

[Martyn]

BTW, whatever you do, do it as an individual. BB is not a politicaly motivated website, nor will it ever be. There wont be any mass mailings of members, or BB movement. You're an individual, you have a voice, you have a pen, you have the right to wite to your MP and express your sentiments - use it!

[David Morgan]

Just heard on the radio that they want to ban carrying all knives!
B@llocks, I've just ordered another sebbie!!!!!!!!

Adi, for the benefit of those who want to write to our MPs and the Home Secretary could you (or anyone else who heard) tell us when and where you heard this, who said it (government spokesman directly, reported, rumoured) etc. Also has anyone seen any similar statement I print. It might help in writing to be able to cite an article/statement; 'I am concerned about the statement made by Mr X of the HO in the Daily Y...' rather than 'Please don't stop us carrying knives!'.

Cheers,

David.

[David Morgan]

Just another thought, does anyone know a way of finding out the voting record of MP's? If your MP voted against other pieces of ill-thought out reaction legislation (dangerous dogs act, new firearms legislation, and the like) then that might affect the choice of langauge.

[Yog]

[QUOTE=David Morgan]Adi, for the benefit of those who want to write to our MPs and the Home Secretary could you (or anyone else who heard) tell us when and where you heard this, who said it (government spokesman directly, reported, rumoured) etc. [QUOTE]

A taped recording of David Blunket (Home Secratary) was played on Radio 1's mid morning news program, and a slightly longer version on their lunchtime news program.

In it the Home Sec explained that the law as it stood allowed for a manditory 5 year sentence for carrying a gun in public, and as it had been a success (hmm ?) he was considering making the sentence for carrying a knife in public the same, because he said that thugs had switched from carrying guns to carrying knives (Hmm ... possible credibility gap there me thinks).

There were overtures that this might be extended to all knives, but was not expicitly said.

In the slightly longer lunchtime recording the Home Sec did allow that the length of the sentence for carrying a knife in public would "likely" vary depending on how the knife was being handled at the time.

[Little claw]

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with you. The statement that you make above is on a par with the general public’s misconception that all knives are dangerous weapons.

I will concur that guns make excellent weapons and that a gangster with a gun is far more of a danger than one armed with a knife. But lets not forget that killing a fellow citizen is illegal, full stop. The type of gun favoured by gangsters (fully auto pistols, machine guns, sawn-off shotguns ect.) are already banned and illegal to own in the UK .

There are quite a large number of people in the UK who enjoy shooting sports and have never used a gun against any living creature, rather they shoot paper, metal or clay targets. The types of gun allowed are strictly controlled. You need to be a member of a shooting club (for target) and serve a probationary period before being accepted as a full member. Then if you want to apply for a Firearms certificate (to own your own gun/s), there is a lot of form filling, police checks, medical checks and 2 (or 3, if applying for a shotgun at the same time) signed references from people who have known you personally for more that 2 years(who themselves have to be of good character, Doctor, Lawyer, Business man ect.) and up to 8 signed passport sized photos. A home visit to interview you (as to suitably to own guns) and a check on security arrangements for storage of guns. You don’t have to be a member of a club to hunt, but all of the rest applies.

If you asked any one in the street, who is Britain’s most successful medal winner is, few would know. It is in fact Mick Gault, a target pistol shooter and Britain’s most successful medal winner in any sport, with eleven golds to his credit.

I know where you're coming from and I wasn't having a go at the shooting public, having been one of them myself. The 1988 (?) post hungerford legislation just made it too hard for me to continue shooting, due to my age and financial situation but I'm all in favour of responsible gun ownership and use. I used to shoot at school (we had our own armoury!) but I couldn't continue as the school was not a club. I believe there were 5 million licensed shooters in this country before that legislation and I would have happily joined their ranks.

This and the facts of what you said doesn't reduce guns to anything less than what they are. The fact that guns can be (are frequently are) put to legitimate non-violent use doesn't change the fact that they are weapons. Full stop. I have been on the other side of this argument more time than I care to remember and would stand side by side with you in arguing for the right of law abiding British citizens to own and use firearms for any legitimate purpose, including raw, unadulterated fun and stretching as far as use for personal defence if necessary.

The reason I said what I did is that guns are designed as weapons. It doesn't matter what you or I argue about their legitimate place in a peaceful society, they cannot serve any other practical purpose. Most (if not all) practical uses of guns are as a weapon, whether for pest control, hunting or police use. Non-practical uses, (i.e. sport and leisure or ornamental) are arguably both unecessary and a perversion of their intended use. Sporting models may have been modified beyond belief and be used only for punching paper, but there is no defence for having a gun without a good reason (even if it is leisure) which is why the penalties are so tough. Other weapons in this category (pure weapon) might include bows and crossbows. The fact that they are weapons, however, doesn't negate their legitimate use, IMHO.

Knives, axes, sticks, etc. may be used as weapons but, with exceptions, are not designed or intended purely as weapons. This fact doesn't nullify the fact of their misuse, but it should mitigate the carrying of them somewhat.

Or do you think that I should get 5 years for being in possession of a calypso jr, without the defence of 'good reason'?

[Little claw]

he was considering making the sentence for carrying a knife in public the same, because he said that thugs had switched from carrying guns to carrying knives

Surely this would mean that all the thugs who have been "successfully" weaned off guns would now revert back to using them as there would be no benefit in carrying a lesser weapon?

[David Morgan]

Thanks Yog.

[mirage]

To find out how your MP votes, go to this site.

What have you done today to protect your knife rights?

mirage

[Ophidian]

Thanks for clearing that up.

On the subject of knives, I think it would be far more sensible if responsible adults like everyone on this forum, where allowed to carry whatever they liked as personal cutlery. We all know what is reasonable and what is just over the top. I wouldn’t even object to applying for a knife carrying permit if that was deemed the way to go. Criminals, druggies and other violent people need not apply.

But I would introduce an automatic minimum 5 -10 year jail sentence for “misuse” ranging from threatening to stab someone to actually stabbing them. If they die from their injuries, then an automatic 20 year sentence.

If people thought they ran the risk of a lengthy sentence then they would be very careful about where and when they carried a knife! It would for example be stupid to take one out on a pub crawl with you.

[Chux]

Criminals, druggies and other violent people need not apply.

Criminals, druggies and other violent people would not apply but they would still carry whatever they fancy.

But I would introduce an automatic minimum 5 -10 year jail sentence for “misuse”
ranging from threatening to stab someone to actually stabbing them. If they die from their injuries, then an automatic 20 year sentence.

Sounds fine but then you getting that daft crowd that doesn't think you should lock up dangerous people. They'd rather reduce the freedom of society as a whole in a vain attempt to have everyone live nicely together than actually lock up people who have proven that they can't abide by society's rules.

[Yog]

Criminals, druggies and other violent people would not apply (for a permit to carry) but they would still carry whatever they fancy.
.

What Ophidian was suggesting (if I read him right), is not a permit to keep knives away from the crims, they wouldn't take any notice any way, but to give freedoms back to the law abiding citizens that would wish to carry a pocket knife.

I think it is a great idea, as it would remove the worry I have every time I put a 2" locking folder in my pocket when I'm not at work.
On the other hand I don't think it stands a hope in h*ll of becoming a reality because if somebody with this hypathetical permit did commit a crime with a knife it would mean that (in the eyes of the media/public) some official responsible for issuing permits would at least be partially responsible for the crime. And I can't see for one momment somebody in authority wanting that sort of responsibility for one second.