+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 14
1 2 3 4 5 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 206

Thread: The Law FAQ

  1. #1
    Administrator Martyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Staffordshire.
    Age
    45
    Posts
    21,542

    The Law FAQ

    Frequently Asked Questions:

    Q: How old must I be to buy a knife?
    A: It is an offence for anyone to sell a knife to any person under 18 years of age in the UK.
    Section 6 of The Offensive Weapons Act 1996, which is an amendment to section 141 of The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (offensive weapons) states that:

    141A. - (1) Any person who sells to a person under the age of sixteen years an article to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both.

    (2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to-

    (a) any knife, knife blade or razor blade,
    (b) any axe, and
    (c) any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed and which is made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person.

    Section 43 of The violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 has amended the following...
    (2) In section 141A(1) (prohibition on sale of knives etc. to persons under sixteen), for “sixteen” substitute “eighteen”.
    The Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 has amended the law to make it an offence to sell a knife to persons under the age of 18.

    EXEMPTIONS:
    There is an exemption order to the above, The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) (Exemption) Order 1996 which reads as follows:
    2. Section 141A(1) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (sale of knives or certain articles with blade or point to persons under sixteen) shall not apply to —
    (a) a folding pocket-knife if the cutting edge of its blade does not exceed 7.62 centimeters (3 inches).
    (b) razor blades permanently enclosed in a cartridge or housing where less than 2 millimeters of any blade is exposed beyond the plane which intersects the highest point of the surfaces preceding and following such blades.
    This means there are no age restrictions to the sale of folding (non-locking) slipjoint knives with a blade of under 3 inches and the sale of safety razors.
    Q: What is a lock knife?
    A: A knife with a device for locking the blade in the open position, sometimes called a safety lock!

    Q: Is a Leatherman Wave a lock knife?
    A: Yes!

    Q: Is an Opinel a lock knife?
    A: Generally, yes! Certainly the most common models are. Almost all models of Opinel knives have their patented VIROBLOC® locking ring, these are lock knives. But there are a few models of Opinel knives which do not have the locking ring or any other locking mechanism, obviously these are not lock knives.

    Q: I dont always use the locking ring on my Opinel. If the ring is not engaged, is it still classified as a lock knife?
    A: Yes!

    Q: Is a Swiss Army Knife (SAK) a lock knife?
    A: Some of the larger models are, most are not. If it has a lock, it's a lock knife, if it doesn't, it isn't!

    Q: What is the legal definition of a lock knife?
    A: A Crown Court case (Harris v DPP), saw an enthusiastic lawyer convincing a judge that a lock knife was equivalent to a fixed blade knife when the lock was engaged. Even though it has not been defined in a parliamentary act, it has never been overturned or superseded and so is effective law (case law). A lock knife for all legal purposes, is the same as a fixed blade knife. A folding pocket knife must be readily foldable at all times. If it has a mechanism that prevents folding, it's a lock knife (or for legal purposes, a fixed blade)!

    In theory, case law can be overturned by a more senior judge or court. The Harris ruling has been tested in a more senior court, namely the Court of Appeal - the highest court in the UK before parliament. The case of REGINA - v - DESMOND GARCIA DEEGAN, Court of Appeal 1998, upheld the Harris ruling stating that "folding was held to mean non-locking". No leave to appeal was granted. This is significant, since the Harris ruling was upheld in the Court of Appeal by Deegan, ALL COURTS MUST now adhere to the ruling.

    Q: Are lock knives illegal to own?
    A: No! You can quite legally buy, make, sell, import or gift a lock knife. It is perfectly legal to own and use a lock knife on your own property, or on private property where you have the landowners permission. It is, however, ILLEGAL to carry a lock knife in a public place, unless you have a good reason to do so.

    Q: Are fixed blade or sheath-knives illegal to own?
    A: No!

    Q: Can I carry a lock knife (or a fixed blade knife) in a public place just because I feel like it?
    A: No, it is ILLEGAL to carry a lock knife in a public place without a good reason.

    Q: Can I carry a lock knife in a public place if I have a good reason?
    A: Yes.

    Q: Can I carry a fixed blade (sheath) knife in a public place if I have a good reason?
    A: Yes.

    Q: What constitutes a "good reason"?
    A: According to section 139, subsections 4&5 of The Criminal justice Act 1988....
    (4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.
    (5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—
    1. for use at work;
    2. for religious reasons; or
    3. as part of any national costume.
    Q: Are there any other good reasons?
    A: Yes. What constitutes a good reason is a matter for common sense, the police and the courts. There is no exhaustible list defined in law. If you think you have a good reason and a police officer disagrees, it'll be up to the courts to decide your fate.

    Q: I have an allotment and it's time to cut my cabbages. Can I legally take a fixed blade knife to my allotment to cut my cabbages?
    A: That would seem reasonable to me, but there is no written rule. The final word is a matter of magistrate opinion.

    Q: I am an odd job man and occasionally have to strip 13amp wires for plugs. Can I carry my 10inch custom Bowie for this eventuality?
    A: That would NOT seem reasonable to me, but there is no written rule. The final word is a matter of magistrate opinion.

    Q: I am a devout Sikh and am required by my religion to carry a traditional knife or kirpan, can I carry one in a public place?
    A: Yes. That is specifically cited as an example of a "good reason" defence in statute.

    Q: I am Scottish by birth, can I carry a dagger or Skein Dubh in my sock as part of my Highland dress?
    A: Yes. That is specifically cited as an example of a "good reason" defence in statute.

    Q: I proclaimed myself a Jedi Knight for the last census, can I carry a light sabre?
    A: Sadly, no. Although many tens of thousands cited Jedi as their religion, it is not officially recognised in law.

    Q: Is "self defence" a good reason?
    A: Absolutely not! If you are carrying a knife for self defence, by definition you are carrying the knife as a weapon. Not only are you guilty of carrying a bladed article, contrary to s139 of The Criminal justice Act 1988, but you are also guilty of the more serious offence of carrying an offensive weapon.

    Q: What is the penalty for carrying a lock knife in public, without a good reason?
    A: According to section 139, subsections 6 (a) & (b) of The Criminal justice Act 1988:
    (6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable
    1. on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or both;
    2. on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or a fine, or both.
    Section 42 of The Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 has the following amendment to the above...
    Increase of maximum sentences for offences of having knives etc. (1) In each of the following provisions of The Criminal justice Act 1988 (c. 33), for “two” substitute “four”—
    (a) section 139(6)(b) (maximum penalty for offence of having knife etc. in public place);
    (b) section 139A(5)(a)(ii) (maximum penalty for offence of having knife etc. or offensive weapon on school premises).
    Q: What constitutes a public place?
    A: Section 139, subsection 7 of The Criminal justice Act 1988, defines it as:
    (7) In this section “public place” includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.
    Q: Can I keep a locking knife in the glove compartment of my car, just because I feel like it?
    A: No! Your car is defined by law as a public place. There is no legal difference (for the purpose discussed here) between your car and the pavement outside your local cinema. A car is not a piece of land and is therefore not private property unless it's parked on private property. Think of it as luggage. Think of a parked car as left luggage.

    Q: Are there any knives I can carry in public in the UK, just because I feel like it?
    A: Yes.

    Q: What kind of knife can I carry in a public place without a good reason?
    A: The knife must have a cutting edge of no more than 3 inches and must not have a lock of any kind.
    For a knife to be a folding pocket-knife within the meaning of this section, it must be readily and immediately foldable at all times, simply by the folding process. A lock-knife, which required a further process, namely activating a trigger mechanism to fold the blade back into the handle, was held not to be a folding pocket-knife (Harris v DPP [1993] 1 All ER 562); followed in R v Deegan [1998] Crim LR 562,[1998] 2 Cr App Rep 121. The section applies to articles which have a blade or are sharply pointed, falling into the same broad category as a knife or sharply pointed instrument;
    Q: Can you give me some examples of a legal folding knife to carry without the need for a reasonable reason?
    A: The Spyderco Pride, the Spyderco UK Penknife, any old timer type slipjoint with less than 3" blades, many Swiss Army Knife models and Laguiole slip joints, to name a few.

    Q: I keep hearing about "slip joints" what are they?
    A: A slip joint is a folding knife where the blade is does not lock in the open position, but rather a spring keeps the blade open for some safety. It can be closed without the need to operate any device or lock mechanism. Think of the Swiss Army Knife basic design, the blade opens by pulling it open and it closes simply by folding it. A slip joint with less than a 3" blade is legal carry in the UK.

    Q: I heard that "combat knives" are illegal to own, is this true?
    A: No. The Knives Act 1997, made it illegal to market or sell a knife as a combat knife, but it is not illegal to own or buy one.

    Q: Are flick knives illegal to buy?
    A: Yes. Flick knives, automatics or switchblades are on the "banned items list".

    Q: Is there any way at all I can legally acquire a flick knife?
    A: No. They are completely illegal to buy, sell, make, construct, pawn, gift, auction, import or otherwise acquire in any way. They were first banned by the Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act 1959 and subsequent acts. With regard to automatic or "flick" knives, the 1959 act makes it illegal to "manufacture, sells or hires or offers for sale or hire, or exposes or has in his possession for the purpose of sale or hire, or lends or gives to any other person. In addition it also states that "The importation of any such knife as is described in the foregoing subsection is hereby prohibited".

    Q: So flick knives are illegal to own then?
    A: No. You can legally own a flick knife in your own home, providing it was in your posession before the 1959 Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act, came into effect.

    Q: Are swords illegal to own?
    A: No, swords are perfectly legal to own in your own home.

    Q: Are swords illegal to carry in public?
    A: Yes, unless it's part of a national costume, or for religious purposes or for a re-enactment event or some other reasonable purpose.

    Q: So what items are on this "banned items" list?.
    A: Section 141 of The Criminal justice Act 1988 and The Criminal justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988 makes it an offence to manufacture, sell or hire or offer for sale or hire, or expose or have in possession for the purpose of sale or hire or lend or give to any person any of the following weapons [7]:
    • Balisong or butterfly knife
    • Knuckleduster
    • Telescopic truncheon
    • Push dagger
    • Shuriken, shaken, or death star
    • Handclaw
    • Footclaw
    • Manrikgusari or kusari (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at each end to a hard weight or hand grip)
    • Swordstick
    • Hollow kubotan (cylindrical container containing a number of sharp spikes)
    • Blowpipe or blowgun
    • Kusari gama (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a sickle)
    • Kyoketsu shoge (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a hooked knife)
    • Belt buckle knife
    • Disguised knife (added to the list by the 2002 amendment)
    • Stealth knife (added to the list by the 2004 amendment)
    Note: This Order specifies descriptions of weapons to which section 141 of The Criminal justice Act 1988 applies. Antique weapons, which are defined as weapons over 100 years old at the time of an alleged offence, are excluded.

    Q: Is it true that if a knife is too sharp, that can make it illegal?
    A: No.

    Q: Can my Swiss Army Knife ever be considered an offensive weapon?
    A: Yes, absolutely it can. Anything can be an offensive weapon if you either use it as one, or intend to use it as one.

    Q: So could I still be arrested for carrying an otherwise legal Swiss Army Knife?
    A: Yes, absolutely. If you do something or say something that gives a person or police officer reason to suspect you intend to use it as a weapon, then you can be arrested for possession of an offensive weapon. The burden for proving "intent" however, sits with the police.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Disclaimer:
    While every effort has been taken to ensure the accuracy of this FAQ, including peer-review by legal professionals and serving police officers, it is offered to you here as "lay-opinion" and should be considered as such. No guarantees of accuracy are offered or implied. If you have a specific legal issue, you should seek the advice of a registered legal professional.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Copyright:
    Many hours work has gone in to researching and compiling this FAQ and it is covered by © BritishBlades copyright 2002 (except those portions quoted from Crown documents which are © Crown copyright 1988 ). It may not be reprinted, in part or in whole without the express permission of BritishBlades. However, in the interests of benefiting as many people as possible, royalty-free permission to reprint the FAQ will usually be given upon request, providing the FAQ is reprinted verbatim, the links to government documents remain intact and a full citation of BritishBlades as the source is given. In addition, a live link back to this thread (or alternatively a printed URL) should be used, in order that changes in the FAQ can be tracked back to this page.
    "If Plan A is to take multiple .338 shots to the back, you really need to come up with a Plan B......"

  2. #2
    BritishBlades Moderator ANDYLASER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SOUTHAMPTON
    Age
    45
    Posts
    13,790

    Re: The Law FAQ

    I think that should cover most questions that are asked.
    Top Tips
    A mouse trap placed on top on of your alarm clock will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep.

  3. #3
    Administrator Martyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Staffordshire.
    Age
    45
    Posts
    21,542

    Re: The Law FAQ

    Got some more Q&A's to add about the offensive weapons act (what is an offensive weapon etc), but I'm too tired to do it tonight.
    "If Plan A is to take multiple .338 shots to the back, you really need to come up with a Plan B......"

  4. #4
    Contributing Member Hellz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Nr. Canterbury, Kent
    Age
    38
    Posts
    2,337

    Re: The Law FAQ

    Excellent stuff Martyn. Very useful... Fun too

    Hellz
    Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead.
    Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow.
    Do not walk beside me, either; just leave me the hell alone.

  5. #5
    Dealer/Trader Stew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Cheshunt, Herts
    Age
    28
    Posts
    10,123

    Re: The Law FAQ

    Well done Martyn - it's needed doing for a while.

    One point about Opinels though. You might want to change the wording slightly (I don't know how) because not quite all of the models lock. There's only a handful (for example, Model 121040 near the bottom.) but even so...

  6. #6
    Contributing Member Underhay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    4,151

    Re: The Law FAQ

    Excellent Martyn

    If that doesn't sort the matter, nothing will.

    By the way my slip joint is so rusted I can't close it....................








  7. #7
    Senior Member familne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Fife
    Age
    38
    Posts
    1,026

    Re: The Law FAQ

    Shouldn't gravity knife be on the banned list?

  8. #8
    Administrator Danzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Nottingham
    Age
    43
    Posts
    49,843

    Re: The Law FAQ

    Quote Originally Posted by familne
    Shouldn't gravity knife be on the banned list?
    It's the same act of parliament as the one banning automatics, but they are so rare as to make it a bit academic IMHO.

    Danzo
    "I know I had to smoke myself into a coma to stop thinking about you....."

  9. #9
    Dealer/Trader Andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Land of webbed feet
    Age
    24
    Posts
    13,767

    Re: The Law FAQ

    what is a gavity knife?

    I thought it was another term for butterfly knives. eg spyderfly
    WARNING contents of this post may not be consistant with reality

  10. #10
    Slave to a fluffy b1tch! Ratel10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Gold Coast, Oz
    Age
    40
    Posts
    2,640

    Re: The Law FAQ

    Guys, according to this thread at BladeForums, http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=336748 That ruling on 3" lock knives was overturned on an appeal of the original case. So the question is, where do we actually stand? Can we or can we not carry a multitool or ordinary lock knife in public as though it were a slipjoint?
    Last edited by Ratel10mm; 27-05-05 at 06:12 PM. Reason: Spelling

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    324

    Re: The Law FAQ

    Kudos to Martyn , Ross , and Danzo . The stuff in FAQ, Ask a Cop , and the offensive weapons section is very well explained . From time to time I think of revisiting the UK , I consider these guidelines usefull . Some of ths general principles apply in Canada . Here locking vs. nonlocking isnt an issue per see . Blade length isnt either , however I'd rather explain 3" than 5" . Here anything that will open by centrifugal force alone is an issue , so it well behoves one to keep pivots tight . This is based on a California descision classing inertial openers as "gravity knives " . Concealment can be an issue , but requires the Crown to establish Men Rea .

  12. #12
    Administrator Martyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Staffordshire.
    Age
    45
    Posts
    21,542

    Re: The Law FAQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratel10mm
    Guys, according to this thread at BladeForums, http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=336748 That ruling on 3" lock knives was overturned on an appeal of the original case. So the question is, where do we actually stand? Can we or can we not carry a multitool or ordinary lock knife in public as though it were a slipjoint?
    Firstly, the Harris decision was not about the length of the blade, but simply concerned with the locking aspect. The length is dealt with in section 139 of the 1988 CJA.

    They have it wrong in the thread you mention. In actual fact, the court of appeal (the highest court in the UK before parliament) upheld Harris v DPP. This is dissapointing, because it means all lower courts must abide by the ruling. Crown courts are lower than the court of appeal, so ALL crown courts MUST rule that a locking blade is to be considered a fixed blade. It is now no longer up to the judge to decide. Only parliament can now overturn the Harris ruling.

    I'm sure Danzo will chip in with case specifics or if I have any facts wrong.
    "If Plan A is to take multiple .338 shots to the back, you really need to come up with a Plan B......"

  13. #13
    Administrator Danzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Nottingham
    Age
    43
    Posts
    49,843

    Re: The Law FAQ

    You rang?



    Martyn is correct, of course. In the case of Deegan the Court of Appeal considered the Harris ruling. They took the view that although Parliament had probably not intended to ban locking knives under three inches it was not the role of the courts to step in and alter the Harris ruling; that should be for parliament to do if it thought it necessary. This of course sidesteps the issue that it was the courts and not parliament which imposed the locking ban in the first place by means of Harris!

    Whichever way you look at it the CA has upheld the legal decision in Harris and the case stands.

    Danzo
    "I know I had to smoke myself into a coma to stop thinking about you....."

  14. #14
    Administrator Martyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Staffordshire.
    Age
    45
    Posts
    21,542

    Re: The Law FAQ

    Thanks o mighty oracle of the law.

    I've updated the FAQ to reflect the implications of Deegan.

    In theory, case law can be overturned by a more senior judge or court. The Harris ruling has been tested in a more senior court, namely the Court of Appeal - the highest court in the UK before parliament. The case of REGINA - v - DESMOND GARCIA DEEGAN, Court of Appeal 1998, upheld the Harris ruling stating that "folding was held to mean non-locking". No leave to appeal was granted. This is significant, since the Harris ruling was upheld in the Court of Appeal by Deegan, ALL COURTS MUST now adhere to the ruling. Following the Deegan deecision, the only way the Harris ruling can be overturned is through a parliamentary act.
    "If Plan A is to take multiple .338 shots to the back, you really need to come up with a Plan B......"

  15. #15
    Administrator Martyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Staffordshire.
    Age
    45
    Posts
    21,542

    Re: The Law FAQ

    Oh, and looking here... http://www.publications.parliament.u...5/ldminute.htm

    It would also seem that an appeal to the House of Lords was refused.

    Regina v. Deegan (Petitioner)— That leave to appeal be refused.
    "If Plan A is to take multiple .338 shots to the back, you really need to come up with a Plan B......"

+ Reply to Thread

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts